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Old 12-15-13   #1
LadyOfTheTrees
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Question Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

This is gonna spring some debate and I assume a few people will get angry, but I was curious about peoples' opinions. What do you all think about pit bulls? I can say right now that 100,000 pits are fighting each other this minute in Detroit and at the end of the month, the ring owners will cash out with $30,000 per month. So, is it just the ring dogs that are dangerous? You're going to be surprised - ring dogs accounted for NO maulings or attacks into 2013 because they're kept confined and their owners understand how dangerous they are - in the following data, all the deaths and maulings came from pet pit bulls, not a single ring dog. And what about their "lock jaw?" It's a myth. They do have a vicious bite and won't let go until their prey is dead, but their jaws don't actually click into place - the Rottweiler has the same ability and it's more about stamina and motivation. A research center in Colorado confirmed this, also stating that their bite is similar to that of a shark. So, are pit bulls killers? Here's there history... Which, and I think they are. For more than 1000 years they've been bred for nothing more than fighting. They don't guard, track, herd, or work in anyway. They will guard their territory but not their owners. Mauling's on children and elderly have frequently resulted in complete consumption of the body. So, before you take my word for it, here are the stats... Actually, wait... I should add that the PSI (pounds for square inch) on their bite is approximately 300. The world record for a domesticated dog is 328 and was achieved by a Rottweiler. Rottweiler's were bred to guard though, not to fight - I'm not fond of this breed either though. And what about pit bull vs. hyena? I looked it up... A pit bull took a spotted hyena down by the throat in minutes. Another pit bull killed a wolf in Montana that strayed onto his farm's property - the wolf was twice its size but it took a death grip to its neck and took it down in under half an hour with minor wounds. So, essentially, scientists are saying that the pit bull is in actuality a wild animal that simply appears to be domesticated... Now some stats,

"Dog bite studies ::
In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. This is well above the average of 60 percent from 2005 to 2012.

As the pit bull population rises, more human fatalities ensue. During the last eight-year period (1991-98) that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied fatal attacks by breed, pit bulls were estimated at 1 percent of the U.S. dog population. Pit bulls killed an average of three people per year.

The pit bull population has since grown to 4 percent. During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year.

If the current rate of fatalities inflicted by pit bulls continues, 33 Americans
will lose their lives to pit bulls by the end of 2013.

DogsBite.org is a national dog bite victims' group dedicated to reducing serious dog
attacks. We urgently bring this information to your attention.

DogsBite.org is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt public charity organization.

Why do pit bulls kill more Americans than all dog breeds combined?
The founder of DogsBite.org explains this clearly in an editorial published by the Orlando Sentinel, "Banning pit bulls saves lives and protects the innocent"

"The threat from pit bulls results from the combinationof the animals' inclination to attack without warning — an essential trait of
fighting dogs — and the type of injuries that pit bulls typically inflict.

Most dogs bite and retreat, but pit bulls have ahold-and-shake bite style, and tenaciously refuse to stop an attack once begun.

Often a pit bull releases its grip only when dead — the traitdog fighters describe as being 'dead game.'"

Please take a moment to read the editorial to learn about an issue that results in
thousands of people hospitalized annually with "severe" injuries and
in worst case scenarios, "mauling" injuries, involving maiming, loss of limbs and death.

Important Materials to Review:

Understanding the different levels of dog bite injury and fatality statistical data is critical when navigating the national debate about dog bite injuries and
dangerous dog breeds.

The Three Levels of Dog Bite Injury
Report: 2012 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - DogsBite.org
8-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Chart (2005 to 2012)
8-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality State Map (2005 to 2012)

2013 Dog Bite Fatality Victims:

Learn more about each of this year's dog bite fatality victims. DogsBite.org will
update this pledge campaign when new deaths occur due to devastating dog bite
injury.

Betty Todd, 65-years old - Killed by her
son's pet pit bull.
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old - Killed by
his neighbor's chained pit bull
Elsie Grace, 91-years old - Killed by her
son's two pit bulls
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old - Killed by his
neighbor's chained pit bull
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old - Killed by a pit
bull while visiting family friends
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old - Killed by
his babysitter's two pet pit bulls
Monica Laminack, 21-months old - Killed by
her family's pet pit bulls
Tyler Jett, 7-years old - Killed by his
neighbor's two pit bull-mix dogs
Claudia Gallardo, 38-years old - Killed by a
property owner's pit bull
Jordyn Arndt, 4-years old - Killed by her
babysitter's pit bull
Beau Rutledge, 2-years old - Killed by his
family's pet pit bull
Rachael Honabarger, 35-years old - Killed by
her family German shepherd
Pamela Devitt, 63-years old - Killed by a
pack of loose pit bulls
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old - Killed by
four roaming pit bulls


--------------


Who do they kill? Not ring owners and not men ages 20-40, rather, they kill infants, children, and the elderly and often consume a lot of the body...

"65-years old | Hodges, SC
Betty Todd, 65-years old, was brutally killed by her son's pit bull while babysitting his three children. Her son, Andrew Todd, and his wife were out to dinner at the time. The eldest child called her father, alerting him to the attack then "evacuated" her younger siblings out of the house. Deputies arrived to a bloody aggressive pit bull inside the home. When deputies were able to enter, they discovered the woman's body lifeless on the living room floor covered in blood with bite wounds on her head, face and neck. The coroner's report said that Betty died of severe neck and spinal injuries. The family had owned the pit bull for four years. The victim's brother-in-law, David Todd, told the media, "This dog has never shown any aggression before." It was later revealed that the dog had killed the family's Siberian husky four months earlier. The pit bull had been neutered just days before killing Betty Todd in hopes of lowering its aggression"

"Christian Gormanous
4-years old | Montgomery County, TX
Christian Gormanous, 4-years old, was mauled to death by his neighbor's chained pit bull. The attack occurred on a Saturday afternoon on the 5700 block of Pinehurst Drive in west Montgomery County. Christian and his 9-year old sister, Trinity, had been playing in their family's backyard when the boy climbed over a chain-link fence into the neighbor's yard. What awaited Christian was a dangerous dog, a chained pit bull. Though the animal was chained, the boy was still within its reach. The dog viciously attacked the boy. Trinity managed to get her younger brother back over the fence then ran and told her mother who called 911. The boy's injuries were so severe, he was airlifted to a Houston hospital. The boy did not survive his injuries; he died at the hospital that evening. At the time of the attack, the boy's mother had been feeding a newborn inside the home. Charges against the dog's owner are not anticipated."

"Elsie Grace
91-years old | Hemet, CA
Elsie Grace, 91-years old, was discovered dead in a hotel room after being mauled to death by her son's two pit bulls. Hemet police Lt. Duane Wisehart said the victim had "a great deal of trauma to her body." Elsie and her son had been staying at the hotel because they were in the process of relocating to Hemet. Her son was away at the time of the deadly attack. Elsie was a nationally known watercolorist who taught for 33 years at Copper Mountain College in Joshua Tree. After her retirement, she was commissioned by La Quinta Hotel and painted 230 watercolor views of the hotel's casitas. Elsie was also a member of the La Quinta Arts Association and exhibited her work at the La Quinta Arts Foundationʼs Art Under the Umbrellas event. Family members created a memorial website to celebrate her life and to start the Elsie Grace Scholarship for the Arts Fund."

"Isaiah Aguilar
2-years old | Sabinal, TX
Isaiah Aguilar, 2-years old, was struck down by his neighbor's pit bull. The boy had been playing with a balloon outside his home when the wind blew it into a neighbor's backyard. When he chased after the balloon, he was attacked by a female pit bull tied up in the yard. Richard Aguilar, the boy's father, said he was able to get into the neighbor's yard because there was a huge hole in the fence. By the time Aguilar reached him, Isaiah had already stopped breathing. Police officers transported the child to a hospital in Uvalde, but he did not survive. According to the boy's family, a person from the dog owner's home opened the door during the attack, but did not help the boy. He just shook his head and shut the door. The pit bull -- left tethered and unattended in an accessible yard -- had committed vicious acts in the past, including: killing its own sire and attacking its own litter of puppies."

"Ryan Maxwell
7-years old | Galesburg, IL
Ryan Maxwell, 7-years old, was attacked and killed by a pit bull while visiting family friends at a home on Whiting Avenue. Ryan had spent the previous night at the home. At the time of the attack, the boy had been playing in the backyard. Investigators believe the dog was tethered before the attack, but broke free. When police arrived, the pit bull was still clamped onto the boy's neck. After police "disengaged" the dog, the animal was shot to death to prevent additional attacks. The boy was transported to Cottage Hospital where he later died from his injuries. The owner of the pit bull, Ashiya Ferguson, said she tried everything she could to get the dog off the boy, including beating the dog with a shovel. "I couldn't stop it. I couldn't stop it." Ferguson repeated in anguish after the attack. She vowed to never own another pit bull again. In June, authorities announced that no charges would be filed. According to Knox County Assistant State's Attorney Elisa Tanner, there was no evidence that a crime occurred."

"Daxton Borchardt
14-months old | Walworth, WI
Daxton Borchardt, 14-months old, was savagely mauled by his babysitter's two pit bulls while under her care. Susan Iwicki, 30-years old, was babysitting the boy at her home on North Lakeshore Drive when her two pit bulls attacked. Iwicki called 911 stating that she and the boy were under attack by her two dogs. Capt. Dana Nigbor said that a deputy arrived at the attack scene just minutes after the call, which occurred outdoors. The deputy discovered Daxton in one of the rooms of Iwicki's home. The toddler was fully naked and lying motionless on his back on the floor in a puddle of blood. He was barely alive. Daxton was transported to a hospital then airlifted to Children's Hospital of Wisconsin with critical injuries. He died less than 3-hours later. Both pit bulls, each 3-years old and sterilized, were removed from the home and euthanized. No criminal charges against the babysitter are pending."

"Carlton Freeman
80-years old | Harleyville, SC
Carlton Freeman, 80-years old, was dragged from his wheelchair by four dogs and savagely attacked. Freeman was a double leg amputee as a result of diabetes. Dorchester County Coroner Chris Nisbet said that Freeman was going down the side of the road in his wheelchair when the dogs attacked. He was taken to Trident Hospital where he died four days later. "He had bites and lacerations from his legs to the top of his head," Nisbet wrote in a news release. "Mr. Freeman was basically helpless [against] the attack." Neighbors said the dogs had been roaming the area for months. Barbara Goodwin, also a neighbor, admitted to caring for three of the dogs. Authorities seized those dogs; each had traces of blood on their fur. Freeman's family members, who witnessed the attack, identified all four dogs as pit bulls. During the investigation, deputies determined all four dogs to be feral and did not belong to any one person. At the request of the victim and his family, no charges were brought."

The list goes ON AND ON. So how did I get onto this subject? I'm going to be moving to a bad area of Sacramento in which nearly everyone owns a pit bull, Rottweiler, or Mastiff, and I need a guard dog. Pit bull? Out of the question. Rottweiler? No way. Mastiff? Mmm, no. German Shepherd? ...That's what I've decided on.

Many will say, oh it's all about how they're raised. It's not. This is the history of the pit bull, "Q: What is the history of the pit bull?
The blood sport of "bull baiting" began over 1,000 years ago in England (various sources dispute this date). What is undisputed is that by 1500, bull baiting had progressed to Britain's national pastime. Bulldogs were reportedly first mentioned by name in 1631, referring to their function rather than a distinct dog breed. By 1800, and through further selective breeding, the bulldog developed into a compact muscular dog characterized by tremendous jaw strength.2
Due to public outrage, bull baiting was banned in England in 1835. Bulldog breeders and owners then moved to the sport of "ratting," where a number of rats were placed into a pit and wagers were made on how many rats the dog could kill in a certain time period. To increase agility, quickness and prey-drive in the bulldog, ratters crossed the breed with terriers. Essentially, it was the sport of ratting that combined the bulldog and terrier into the modern day pit bull terrier.
On the heels of ratting, dogfighting developed. Pit bulls and dogfighting were exported to America as settlers made their way to the New World. In 1884, the American Kennel Club was formed but rejected pit bulls due to their use in dogfighting. In response, Chauncey Z. Bennett formed the United Kennel Club in 1898 to bring formal recognition to the pit bull breed. At that time, Bennett also drew up rules and regulations for dogfighting to bring "organization" to the blood sport."

"Oh but most of them are so nice! I had one that was just a big baby and a sweet heart!" ...I get this... From ages 1-3, I used to sleep in a doggy basket with my aunt's two pit bulls - it would drive my mom into high blood pressure it made her so nervous. I now understand why. So, is there anything beneficial about pit bulls? Or are they just a menace to society and a ticking time bomb waiting to go off? Or are they just a commodity to make money off of barbaric sport? I can say that my friend's pit bull turned violently on me just for looking it in the eyes and I've known it a long time. I lucked out and got in the sliding glass door before she could bite me.

Anyway, I think there's sufficient evidence that these dogs do not fall into any useful class (herding, search and rescue, pointing, hauling, etc. etc.)... And, I know this is brash, but I think the whole breed should be rounded up and euthanized. I watched a YouTube of an illegal ring fight and couldn't get through more than about a minute (these fights can go on for hours at a time), and it was obvious that the dogs WANTED to fight one another. They wanted to kill, it was easy to see. So I skipped to the end and the dog that won and killed the other was laying down panting and looking more content than a kid with candy. I think these dogs have vicious ferocity bred into them and I think they should be done away with...

Opinions from others? Oh yeah, my sources are from all over the place but dogsbite.org is where most this came from. Oh yeah, mixes don't do much to change their temperament - a husky pit killed a woman, a gold retriever pit killed someone, and even a lab/pit half and half attacked and killed a child. Not to mention, nearly 80% of the dogs in the shelter I worked in were pit bulls and the standard procedure was to put them down as they were viewed by vets as no different than having a hyena for a pet...

So?
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Old 12-15-13   #2
LadyOfTheTrees
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

"Due to selective breeding for the purposes of dogfighting, pit bulls are highly dog-aggressive. This aggression is not limited to dogs; pit bulls frequently kill other companion pets and domesticated animals. Leading pit bull education websites warn pit bull owners to, "Never trust your pit bull not to fight." These same websites also state that pit bulls should never be left alone with another dog or animal.16 The practical question is: Why is "pit bull dog aggression" tolerated at all?
Pit bull dog aggression is unacceptable for two reasons. In many instances it leads to human aggression. A common scenario is the following: A loose pit bull attacks a leashed dog being walked by its owner. The owner gets seriously injured trying to stop the attack. In 2009, two human beings suffered death due to pit bull dog aggression: Rosie Humphreys, who had been walking her two poodles, and Carter Delaney, who had tried to protect a smaller dog in his home.
Secondly, far too many beloved companion pets and domesticated animals suffer a violent death by the powerful jaws of pit bull terriers each year. In some instances, these attacks involve pit bulls charging through screen doors of private homes -- in a home invasion attack -- to kill the pet living inside.17 Owners of the pet are then forced to watch as their pet is disemboweled by the pit bull and pray that the dog does not turn its attention on an innocent family member next."
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Old 12-15-13   #3
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

Do you have one? Your stats to me confuse the old issue of are there bad pets or are there bad owners?

I do have one.
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Old 12-15-13   #4
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

Are you kidding me? It's people doing this to the breed. People breeding these dogs and raising them purposefully to contribute to these horrific acts. People doing this to strong-willed dogs that could've otherwise been lovely confident protectors. People create these dogs and then get all surprised when the dog does what they taught him to do. It's not the breed of dog that should be euthanised..
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Old 12-15-13   #5
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

I've never had a pit bull, but I agree....the owners are often the real problem....not the dogs.

Most places that have enacted breed specific bans - starting with the pit bull - usually end up banning many other breeds as well, ie given the hysteria that humans tend towards - banning pit bulls tends to be the thin edge of the wedge.

Humans are by far the bigger problem.
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Old 12-15-13   #6
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

Yeah, well that's 1000 years of bad owners... I doubt their ingrained tempermant can be altered. I just watched a pit eat a 2 day old baby in under 3 minutes on YouTube...
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Old 12-15-13   #7
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

People are stupid. They go to get a 'trendy' dog without understanding the breed, and very often I suspect, with absolutely no idea how to properly care for a dog.

You have no idea how many people are too fucking lazy to properly exercise, socialise and train their dogs. They expect the dog to just understand the human world, which speaks volumes about the inability to empathise on the part of the human. A dog is a dog, and it thinks like a dog, and the human world is big and confusing - and some breeds, strong, intelligent breeds especially - can find it stressful.

Let's use another animal as an example - say, a horse. An inexperienced owner shouldn't try to own say, a stallion, especially like, a huge thoroughbred stallion. Why? They're strong animals, temperamental and liable to be distracted by the smallest thing. They could easily kill an inexperienced handler, just by screwing around. The same applies to dogs, especially breeds which are strong willed and which DO require attention and the correct kind of training (as well as diet, routine, etc etc).

So yeah, I do blame the people. A dog does not have the kind of brain capable of deciding "oh hey I am going to be mean". It's just a dog. It's the owner's responsibility to ensure the dog's needs are met on all levels. 90% of people who own a dog don't know shit about dogs or how to properly care for them, so yeah, no wonder dogs go apeshit from time to time - imagine having a giant useless monkey as your 'friend' that can't even give you proper direction on how to act around other useless monkeys and dogs. Must be confusing as hell.

Also, correlation is not causation.

Asshole owners listen to exactly the kind of hysteria that you've spouted in the first post. They see people espousing that pitbulls and similar breeds are 'mean' and 'unpredictable', and they think "Oh hey, yeah, I NEED a scary dog, I will get such a dog and keep it as a status symbol/insurance/protection". Same thing happened with rottweilers, dobermans etc - and once these breeds are in the hands of people with ill intent, OF COURSE you're going to see a rise in attacks by said dogs - because the owners are useless wastes of space who should never be allowed near an animal, ever.
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Old 12-15-13   #8
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

This even reminds me. When I was a kid, living in Italy - people there weren't very good at keeping pets. For a good while, german shepard dogs were seen as 'dangerous' and terrible dogs to have around. Unsurprisingly, quite a few people kept them as guard dogs.

And by kept, I mean - they tied them up in a fenced off area with a small kennel, and left them there all day and all night - no walkies, no attention, no affection - nothing. The dogs would bark and leap around like maniacs any time anyone walked past their enclosures, practically frothing at the mouth and near injuring themselves jumping at the fence. The poor animals were absolutely not socialised in any way whatsoever, and should they have had the chance to get out, they probably would have attacked someone - through no fault of their own - but rather because they have been driven literally crazy (humans are not the only animals to suffer if isolated and ignored - and we KNOW humans can snap if left in such conditions, so why not a dog?).
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Old 12-15-13   #9
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

I might be considered by some to have a little expertiise in Dogs.
So, too, does windspirit and DonelleBeira.
I have opposed BSL since the beginning, as does every single respected behaviourist on the planet. It is not the answer.
But I suspect my words won't mean much, now that you have decided you're the real canine expert around here.

Good luck with your GSD. You can
bet I'll be keeping him in my prayers.
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Old 12-15-13   #10
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Default Re: Should The Entire Pitbull Breed Be Euthanized?

And I have to add, this title is about THE most idiotic thing I've seen on my forums yet. There should really be a prize for this level of inanity.
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