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Avalonian Magic Grail Mysteries, Arthurian studies, all magic and study related to Avalon and the Matter of Britain

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Old 11-18-09   #1
Lord Ruthven
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Default King Arthur

Right, mad drunken tangent time. I'm a moderator here so this forum is mine and I can do what I want...

What does Arthur symbolise to you? I've recently been reading a book on the real Arthur just after reading the second book in B. Cornwell's trilogy about him so he's on my mind quite a bit... thoughts...

The Round Table : Probably a later addition to the myth but an interesting democratisation given that it was introduced in the time of autocratic monarchies. A symbol that our ideal system is one of equality even when paying lip-service to the idea of a king?

Excaiber and the sword in the stone : Two different swords, Arthur pulled a sword from a stone to become King but Excaliber was given to him later. Excaliber is the most import to me, it represents power given to a man (Arthur) by a woman (the Lady of the Lake) - the sign that a partnership is always there even when it looks like only one half is truly active (i.e. Arthur swings his sword and it looks like only he is involved, but the truth is deeper).

Merlin : To me, the most important part of the myth as I see myself as an inheritor of Merlin. The really good magicians are not in orders for long - they are renegades who find their own way and find their own regimes to bolster.

Thoughts?



(Apologies if this post is rambling and mad, I am tipsy, unwinding and insane.)
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Old 11-19-09   #2
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Walk into your street & look up,you will see Arthur's seat.

Farther along the central belt from you is Camelon,in Fife.

Another cool place is Kouros(spelt culross),where they shoot vampire movies.
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Old 11-19-09   #3
petrus4
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Arthur?

To quote one of my very favourite literary characters, Flynn Taggart:-

"There is a place in the world where decent men walk the streets, where water flows up hill, where miracles happen behind enemy lines and without air support, and where a guy (boy or girl) will stand on the wall that divides you people from the barbarians at the gate, take a bullet, and shoot back at the son of a bitch who fired it."

I still believe in such a place myself, narrowly, although lately my belief in it has been dying. As someone else wrote, however, belief in the Golden Age must continue to exist; for without it, men will not live and cannot die.

Even Atheists have their gods and their heaven; they are simply called by other names. Jesus Christ has been swapped for Charles Darwin, but it's all the same. Very few beliefs really exist because of logic; they exist because of hunger and will for their end results; because even though we don't have the end results of them, living without the idea, the dream, the hope, would be entirely unthinkable.

That is why I will not tolerate an Atheist who considers himself better than me as a theist; all he has really done is put science on a pedestal which I would not. He, however, needs his faith in the Second Law of Thermodynamics in order to retain his sanity, every bit as much as I have needed mine in Kali Ma.

Last edited by petrus4; 11-19-09 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 11-19-09   #4
Lord Ruthven
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Originally Posted by Darkwater View Post
Walk into your street & look up,you will see Arthur's seat.
I climbed up the steep side of Arthur's seat for fun on November 5th. I used to live near a town called Carmarthen in Wales which translates as 'Merlin's fort'. I was for a short time a member of an esoteric group which focuses heavily on Arthurian imagery. Arthur and Merlin have been around me all my adult life.
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Old 11-19-09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ruthven View Post
I climbed up the steep side of Arthur's seat for fun on November 5th. I used to live near a town called Carmarthen in Wales which translates as 'Merlin's fort'. I was for a short time a member of an esoteric group which focuses heavily on Arthurian imagery. Arthur and Merlin have been around me all my adult life.
BTW, LR, the above post where I mention atheists is not directed at you, specifically at all. More me obsessing about Dawkins again, truthfully.
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Old 11-19-09   #6
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Default Re: King Arthur

I started to reply to this but I can't focus my thoughts yet. As you know I'm studying with the Avalon Mystery School and feel myself an inheritor of Morgan le fay. But this is such a big topic. I'm reminded first off of Morgan and Wilfred in the Sea Priestess, how she awakens him and gives him power, although he is no King Arthur he finds his masculine power and authority through his magic with her and contact with Merlin. Some have criticized the role of Morgan as too passive but that misses the whole point I think; it's only an apparent passivity, the current comes through her and in the mysteries of polarity, it is never straightforward like that at all, there is always the dynamic interplay.

I'm glad you opened this up, I'll post some thoughts when I'm a little more awake.
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Old 11-19-09   #7
Lord Ruthven
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I'm reminded first off of Morgan and Wilfred in the Sea Priestess, how she awakens him and gives him power, although he is no King Arthur he finds his masculine power and authority through his magic with her and contact with Merlin.
Definitely a parallalel with the gift of Excaliber to Arthur, there.
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Old 11-19-09   #8
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I climbed up the steep side of Arthur's seat for fun on November 5th. I used to live near a town called Carmarthen in Wales which translates as 'Merlin's fort'. I was for a short time a member of an esoteric group which focuses heavily on Arthurian imagery. Arthur and Merlin have been around me all my adult life.
Place names give away the nature of the people who once lived there,from Aberfoyle to Aberdeen you are talking the Brythonics,(now moved to Aberyistwythe/abergavenny.

King Arthur's guy's ruled what is now Southern Scotland,until the Scot's landed in Strathclyde(sons of Mil(Milesius) ) to displace them(not actually fight )

The sword & crown are symbolic of *the station*,as are many other blade & chalice symbols.The station just being a label used for the place where all children of darkness are to gather.

A lot of Arthurian Legend dovetails beautifully with the Hindu original,due to the bi-furcations in the tribe from time to time.

Also,the method of leadership whereby Arthur is first among equal's at the round table has been employed throughout time & places universal.Some remarkably interesting ones too.



A lot of the free daemonn I have released roam about the central belt of Scotland,they like it there.

Great love,

DW
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Old 11-19-09   #9
Lord Ruthven
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Thoughts on a parallalel of Arthur and the story of the God and Goddess in the year's cycle that several Wiccan groups re-enact across the year:

Doesn't Arthur being armed by the Lady of the Lake mimic the 'Arming of the God' rite wherein the Goddess arms the God for the hunt? The difference here is that the relation between Arthur and the Lady can never be sexual. In fact, Guinevere turns out to be a nightmare for Arthur in legend (though as Lancelot came later this is almost certainly not true of the real life Arthur). Is this a sign of later* pudishness or actually something we should embrace - a new way of looking at the relationship between feminine and masculine spirituality.

Following the story of Arthur, it follows the pattern of the God in Wiccan rites pretty closely:

The god is born in the depths of winter. Arthur was born at a time when the Britons were suffering the depredations of the Saxons.

The god reaches adulthood and is considered worthy, by the goddess, of being armed and taking his position. Arthur pulls the sword from the stone and is rewarded with Excaliber, from then on he shines like the sun.

As the summer comes the god becomes more and more powerful, driving the night away. Arthur drives away the saxons and creates a period of brightness and peace.

Then, the god dies and winter comes again. In the Wiccan rite the god is laid to rest by the goddess (in some even killed by her). In Arthurian myth, Arthur is slain due to internal strife and then is sent off to an island with Excaliber thrown back into the lake - he is laid to rest by the forces that empowered him.

Interestingly in the legend a bleak time follows Arthur's death and the land itself gets darker, suffers famine and plague etc. etc. This - most likely - really happened. It sounds fantastic and legendary but almost every civilization on Earth with records at the time recorded a time of suffering. Some natural disaster, most historians posit a huge volcanic explosion but some suggest a near collision with a comet, clearly hit the earth.

So, did we see in Arthur a man living a life according to the archetype of the celtic gods of the sun/the hunt that Wicca takes its 'god' cycle from? Somewhat, at least, and then it appears that the legend was further embellished to make it match that process even more closely.

Interesting stuff, imo.

*Earlier? Difficult to know with Wicca as it draws from ancient sources but is a modern religion
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Old 11-22-09   #10
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From what I remember of my history, Arthur was more likely to be a roman than a briton, and records from the period suggests there was no king called arthur, although he does appear to have been a celebrated soldier. I've been to ruins of Castle Tintagel in Cornwall believed to have been lived in by Arthur and it is a beautiful place. I have no doubt that Arthur was influential in his time but it seems unlikely that the myth was the same as reality. But the myths of Arthur give people hope and it reads a story of light and darkness. It gives something to believe in, that there can be heroes.
I think it's possible to read in the the myths that Merlin was manipulating Arthur somewhat but of course everything can be viewed from a different point.
To me Arthur is a myth and legend and a good story.
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