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Old 09-20-11   #1
feranaja
 
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Default Threefold Law revisited

Of course this topic has been discussed over and over, and often contentiously - my point in bringing it up to re-visit is, we all change and grow (even Ruthven, apparently) over time, and our views and understandings deepen and change.



For me, the concept that whatever we do will come back on us, is one that is expressed in a variety of ways by different spiritual traditions, but it seems pretty much a constant. We all know folks who say they don't believe in it; that nothing they ever do will rebound, none of the distress they've experienced in their lives has ANYTHING to do with the curses and bindings etc they've done to others. There is no "action/reaction" in their worlds...and personally, I think this is the height of folly, perhaps even a little insane. Even if one does not believe in the Threefold law literally, it's evident that what we do, magically, is something we "put out there" and will not only start up a chain of events, but will attract related entities right to us. I tend to see the "action/reaction" scenario as a little more subtle than Threefold law, but what we choose to do, becomes who we are - and if that is forgiveness, empathy, self mastery, we draw those energies closer.
If what we do tends toward hatred, obsession, and harm, in every case I've ever seen, those same energies infiltrate and ultimately dominate the life of the individual.

This is not the same thing as saying; I, feranaja, strive to be a good person, hence no bad things will ever happen to me. This again is self-delusion. I practise a disciplined form of magico-spiritual development and sometimes, I get my high-minded notions brought down to earth by an Inner contact, or my materialist leanings kicked to the kerb by another energy, or deity; I face challenges and have setbacks like anyone. But when i cast a glance backward, over say the past five years - I see difficulty but much more achievement, learning, growth and joy. In my opinion, it's self defeating to just look at the bad things - similar to cursing yourself - and it's delusional to focus only on the achievements - you cut yourself off from learning and risk the very nasty habit of hubris. I have worked toward cultivation of strength through adversity, focus on beauty in both darkness and light, and deep empathy for the human condition, if not the human action. I've resisted time and again the base emotional desire to "curse" or otherwise use my knowledge and ability to exact revenge or achieve some goal (like.make.the.neighbour.LEAVE).
I feel these attitudes have been rewarded with so many good things, but the challenges remain. I can only imagine the mess I'd be in if I succumbed to the arrogance and lack of control that would be necessary for me to "curse" someone (just saying that feels almost comical to me, the idea is so ridiculous).

It is said a Witch who cannot harm, cannot heal. What is lost in this idea is the fact that because one can - CAN - cause harm (and trust me, I can) - that one actually does that damage. The same power and focus and skill that is required to do good is also necessary for effective harmful magic. Because I have trained for so long in magic - which in itself is neutral, can be put to any kind of use - of course I *can* harm. It's simply my choice, my gnosis, to use this ability to heal. I believe this is the way of all true Initiates. I am sure of that.

And, as I've said in past - I have sent "harm" back to it's sender with such force it laid them flat for ages. I have bound an individual causing great harm and three months later he was dead. I have taken the fallout from such actions but in these cases they were totally necessary, I have NEVER laid an overt curse on anyone in my life -save for the all -too-human habit of mentally wishing someone ill, which in a trained mind such as mine is danger enough. I try to even avoid that. The closer I get to transcendence of these thoughts, the more potent my own form of magic is.



I believe completely that what we ultimate internally, what demons we struggle with, how high r low we decide to aim, is what we become, And what we are draws so much to us, on all the levels. I cannot help but know that our choices carry consequences. So, I remain strong in my conviction that the use of magical ability to harm others is not only morally wrong - it will ultimately harm the one doing it.
And blessings to my detractors, each and every one.


Now - what about you? What are your thoughts?
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Old 09-20-11   #2
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

I agree with just about all of what you've said. I don't think the 3Fold Law is set in stone as far as only returning to you times 3. I think the longer that it takes to come back to you the worse it gets. The longer the wait the greater the weight.

I do agree with the sentiment that a witch that cannot harm cannot heal. I see them as opposite sides of the same coin. Like you, I see harming or healing, blessing or cursing as a personal choice.

In this past year there have been times that I have been so angry/upset that the thought of cursing and binding have been high in my mind. It took an intentional act of will to NOT do what came naturally to me.

Like you, I also have examples of bindings and workings that I've done where I've seen direct consequences of them. Not everyone believes that witches (or insert your favorite term here) can affect the lives of others. I do. I've seen it first hand.

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I have NEVER laid an overt curse on anyone in my life -save for the all -too-human habit of mentally wishing someone ill, which in a trained mind such as mine is danger enough
There is much truth in this statement. A mind that is magically trained will automatically go to what it knows. I think that the wild, untamed natural talent of an untrained individual is worse because they don't realize what they are unleashing or even that they are unleashing.
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Old 09-28-11   #3
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

There is also an "addiction to cruelty" that starts to set in when people get all pumped up and decide to curse others. I've seen some BAD cases of complete loss of moral compass, and much destruction around a person who started off thinking they were justified in harming others, but wound up just a vortex of hatred and anger. I strive for harmony, peace and beauty in my life. I am right now blessing daily someone who has been tremendously negative to me for years. It's a much better place to be, of that I am certain. call it fluffy if you want; I call it empowered, controlled, and balanced.

Or look at it this way; so what if I take down some "enemy" who is behaving atrociously? Another one or ten more or a thousand more will just take their place, because negativity and hatred KEEPS ON BEING FED in this world, by those who should know better. however, if I help to transform one hating, hurting individual- if I ease their pain and help them to live happier lives, and harm no one - now that's something, isn't it?
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Old 09-28-11   #4
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
There is also an "addiction to cruelty" that starts to set in when people get all pumped up and decide to curse others. ..
Sad part its not just curse's / hex's that cause it. When I was really into becoming a profiler and stepping so deeply into that mental place I was not aware of just how it was affecting me until others started to point out the coldness that had settled in on me towards things. That an a sense of elation that started to fill my voice when I spoke of some of the things I had encountered.

It took awhile but I realized that was not the pathway for me for I was sliding into it vice keeping it seperated from me.
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Old 09-28-11   #5
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

I don't know if it's so much as an addiction to cruelty or an addiction to the feeling or power that comes with it.
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Old 09-29-11   #6
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

I do have a question regarding "three-fold" type "laws."

What if the thing you do - "hex," binding, etc - is in response to some harm?

Do you believe that people can be enacting the "three fold law"?

When you feel that you have been truly harmed by another - mulling it over, really arguing with yourself, and you come to this conclusion - is it appropriate to enact the return of harm? To not be a mirror - let's say that didn't happen when the harm first came - but to be a prism: catching, increasing the power, and returning?

If you are the "prism," does that mean that you are returning the energy, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of a "three fold law"?

And how do you know, for certain, that it won't come back at you?

(Asking, because I do not have ANY experience actively "hexing" or binding or anything like that... and I'd love to know!)
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Old 09-29-11   #7
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
There is also an "addiction to cruelty" that starts to set in when people get all pumped up and decide to curse others. I've seen some BAD cases of complete loss of moral compass, and much destruction around a person who started off thinking they were justified in harming others, but wound up just a vortex of hatred and anger. I strive for harmony, peace and beauty in my life. I am right now blessing daily someone who has been tremendously negative to me for years. It's a much better place to be, of that I am certain. call it fluffy if you want; I call it empowered, controlled, and balanced.

Or look at it this way; so what if I take down some "enemy" who is behaving atrociously? Another one or ten more or a thousand more will just take their place, because negativity and hatred KEEPS ON BEING FED in this world, by those who should know better. however, if I help to transform one hating, hurting individual- if I ease their pain and help them to live happier lives, and harm no one - now that's something, isn't it?
Agreed

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I don't know if it's so much as an addiction to cruelty or an addiction to the feeling or power that comes with it.
I think that may often be the case. Most addictions start off with something that makes us feel good at the time. However as the addiction takes hold we lose sight of our moral compass. Well in fact with most serious and harmful addictions we end up losing ourself altogether. I imagine where magic is involved this can become even more extreme.

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Originally Posted by Myliobatis View Post
I do have a question regarding "three-fold" type "laws."

What if the thing you do - "hex," binding, etc - is in response to some harm?

Do you believe that people can be enacting the "three fold law"?

When you feel that you have been truly harmed by another - mulling it over, really arguing with yourself, and you come to this conclusion - is it appropriate to enact the return of harm? To not be a mirror - let's say that didn't happen when the harm first came - but to be a prism: catching, increasing the power, and returning?

If you are the "prism," does that mean that you are returning the energy, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of a "three fold law"?

And how do you know, for certain, that it won't come back at you?

(Asking, because I do not have ANY experience actively "hexing" or binding or anything like that... and I'd love to know!)
I have never hexed or bound anybody either (although I don't rule out the possibility that I might in some circumstances) but I think that is a good question. I think the answer is that in some cases you might actually be acting as a prism, redirecting energy or karma rather than creating it. I just think it would always be difficult to be sure of that and ideally there would always be something more positive and/or constructive you could do instead.
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Old 02-28-14   #8
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

This may be a rather rudimentary question, but I'm interested in what some of the witchy practitioners here have to say.

By what mechanism does the Threefold Law work? What power/forces/structures are in place that ensure such Threefold reciprocation is enacted? Also, why threefold and not 1:1, i.e. why does what you do come back times three versus 'what you do unto others is done unto you'? Why not seven, for instance?

Also, what is the line between help/harm as far as 'the threefold law' is concerned? For example, if I am pruning a tree or a bush, I have to 'cause harm' by removing some of it's branches, though it's 'for the good' of the plant.
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Old 02-28-14   #9
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

I can't speak for all but to me the three fold law is not a send something out and it comes back times three. For me it is more a perspective that an action is undertaken and it then will manifest in one of three possible ways.

It may manifest in a physical sense where an action is taken and a physical return results. Consider you steal something, get caught and are punished. So the action results in a visible manifestation of return. More cause and affect / effect that is direct correlation.

It may manifest as a self created result. Consider again the scenario of a person has stolen some item. Because of moral and ethical influences the action weighs upon the persons mind and psychology. It causes a sense of bad feelings about what they did. A sense of self punishment as they experience regret and any physical results such mental manipulation may cause them to experience.

The last falls close to the psychological / mental but crosses into the spiritual / religious as it pertains to self reflection against whatever ethical / psychological basis they use to judge themselves. Even to the extent of the psychological notion of sin and manifestation of corruption of the spiritual / religious self identity. No true physical manifestations as would be found in the stealing scenario.

So figure there is

Physical action causes a response action
Psychological / mental action causes a mental and / or physical response
Spiritual / religious action causes a psychological sense of guilt, sin, etc that is more based upon ones underlying morality / ethics / etc.

Yet any given action can manifest in any individual or combined facets. You steal, suffer the mental anguish of ones teachings, the mental anguish causes you to suffer guilt, upset stomach, etc. You get caught for stealing and suffer jail, conviction, etc.
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Old 02-28-14   #10
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Default Re: Threefold Law revisited

Thanks for the reply -- I'm going to respond in segments here, if you don't mind

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Originally Posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
I can't speak for all but to me the three fold law is not a send something out and it comes back times three. For me it is more a perspective that an action is undertaken and it then will manifest in one of three possible ways.
Though isn't that roughly the definition by the wiccan/witchcraft perspective (that is, "a send something out and it comes back times three.")? I can appreciate your perspective, but I'm also interested in people with a 'traditional' understanding, so please speak up people.

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It may manifest in a physical sense where an action is taken and a physical return results. Consider you steal something, get caught and are punished. So the action results in a visible manifestation of return. More cause and affect / effect that is direct correlation.
Ah, but many times I have stolen and NOT been caught, and NOT been punished. In fact, more times than not I have only been rewarded by the Universe for such bravado. Are you speaking here in terms of "what goes up must come down" or in terms of an objective moral code that "punishes" when something "wrong" is done??

Quote:
It may manifest as a self created result. Consider again the scenario of a person has stolen some item. Because of moral and ethical influences the action weighs upon the persons mind and psychology. It causes a sense of bad feelings about what they did. A sense of self punishment as they experience regret and any physical results such mental manipulation may cause them to experience.
It seems to me that you are indicating that "moral and ethical influences" of the person's OWN making are responsible for any kind of threefold-law-retribution, yes?

Quote:
The last falls close to the psychological / mental but crosses into the spiritual / religious as it pertains to self reflection against whatever ethical / psychological basis they use to judge themselves. Even to the extent of the psychological notion of sin and manifestation of corruption of the spiritual / religious self identity. No true physical manifestations as would be found in the stealing scenario.
Again, "self reflection" and "to judge themselves." So from your perspective it seems that the so-called Threefold Law is purely subjective and self-imposed?

Quote:
So figure there is

Physical action causes a response action
Psychological / mental action causes a mental and / or physical response
Spiritual / religious action causes a psychological sense of guilt, sin, etc that is more based upon ones underlying morality / ethics / etc.

Yet any given action can manifest in any individual or combined facets. You steal, suffer the mental anguish of ones teachings, the mental anguish causes you to suffer guilt, upset stomach, etc. You get caught for stealing and suffer jail, conviction, etc.
My overall impression here is that you see the 3xLaw as self-imposed, "based upon ones underlying morality / ethics /etc." So, in your perspective, a person could steal all day long and as long as THEY were cool with it, no retribution would follow?
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