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Old 11-28-13   #1
Katharine
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Default The Division

I just came up with this in conversation with Fera. Discuss, debate, argue with me.

Alright, we see people doing bad things. Naturally, we object, we wonder how they can do what they do. We think it's wrong, so we don't do it. How can they not understand that?

At the end of the day, humans are animals too. We're subject to the same biological imperatives, the same instinctive motivations. We're designed to propagate the species at the expense of other organisms. That's how the system works.

Some of us are above that idea, we want to live in peace with our ecosystem. Not everyone understands that.

Cats play with their food, it's hunting practice. To the mouse, it's unnecessary pain and suffering, but the cat not only doesn't see it that way, he CAN'T.

Maybe there are wolves who disapprove of the pain of their prey, but without thumbs, can't think of a better way to hunt, and when they tried going vegan it didn't work.

Slaughterhouses are run in the most efficient way possible, to maximize resources and improve the survival rate of the species, that's the same biological imperative every other species has.

Humans, are just animals. We're animals with thumbs, but we're otherwise not different from anyone else.

I'll bet money, you pick a random slaughterhouse employee and ask him why he does what he does, he'll tell you he's just making a living, and not really understand what you mean.

I think the division is between enlightened and unenlightened. Species is not a factor. Humans as a species are not capable of transcending biology and becoming "Better" than the drive to survive without concern for anyone but themselves. A few select individuals within the population, who are enlightened, are. The same is true of specific individuals in the populations of other animals. Shamanic animals if you will.

May you find what you seek,
Katharine
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Old 11-28-13   #2
Cassie
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Default Re: The Division

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice View Post

I think the division is between enlightened and unenlightened. Species is not a factor. Humans as a species are not capable of transcending biology and becoming "Better" than the drive to survive without concern for anyone but themselves. A few select individuals within the population, who are enlightened, are. The same is true of specific individuals in the populations of other animals. Shamanic animals if you will.

May you find what you seek,
Katharine
Alice/Katherine/Laundra...Whatever... Your posts perplex me!

On the surface you seem to be making good sense and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say... But often I find you are linking things together which aren't really linked or making quite clever circular arguments which walk over the traces of where you don't make sense or hide the gaps in logic or disguise a change of direction...

The above paragraph is a case in point. On the surface I agree with you on several points. Humans are animals just like the other creatures we share the planet with; yes. Primarily we are driven by primal instincts; yes. The division, where there is such a thing is between the enlightened and the unenlightened, or at least the more or less enlightened. Yes.

But what are you really saying?

" Humans as a species are not capable of transcending biology and becoming "Better" than the drive to survive without concern for anyone but themselves."
I'm a Satanist so I certainly agree that as a species we have a biological imperative to survive which normally involves putting ourselves first and there is nothing wrong with that; it's natural. However we are an intelligent species and intelligence dictates that we can often survive better and more comfortably by cooperating in the welfare of others. This is natural too. While in some cases a Lioness will kill all cubs that are not her own, in other situations she will fearlessly protect all the cubs in her pack.

But you also say, " A few select individuals within the population, who are enlightened, are...(capable of transcending biology and becoming "Better)"
Again I agree, but this is where your argument is sneaky, because it l depends on where your emphasis is as to what you mean.

Is the emphasis on "the few"? In which case the main thrust of what you are saying is that most people are incapable of "bettering" themselves; which could easily be used as an excuse or justification for anti-social or even psychopathic behaviour. Especially as earlier in your post you say;-
Quote:
Alright, we see people doing bad things. Naturally, we object, we wonder how they can do what they do. We think it's wrong, so we don't do it. How can they not understand that?
Are you implying that the enlightened can never understand the base nature or the unenlightened? Or are you even perhaps suggesting that the unenlightened should be forgiven for the things they do which others perceive as bad, because it is just "their nature"?

Is enlightenment really so rare? Is it something that only a few can achieve? Are some just naturally enlightened or do we/can e work on it? Do animals have to work at being enlightened?

Or are you saying we should just accept the seeming inhumanity of others?

What are you actually saying?
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Old 11-28-13   #3
Katharine
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Default Re: The Division

I am saying only what I am saying, and I am implying whatever you are inferring.

May you find what you seek,
Katharine
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"The aim of life is self-development. To realize one's nature perfectly - that is what each of us is here for."
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"Why, sometimes I believe as many as six impossible things before breakfast." -Lewis Carroll

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