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Old 09-08-10   #81
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Following your train of thought, you might be interested and/or inspired by reading a relatively short blog/article: http://www.thestoryoflaurie.blogspot.com
Here you may get a better idea about the ancient mystery of parthenogenesis or miraculous conception etc. Good luck!
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Old 10-30-11   #82
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Many of the pre-Christian mystery cults of the middle East would have Temple Priestesses serving the Temple as Prostitutes. Any child resulting from this service was said to be born "Of the God" thus preserving the integrity of the girl in question, and making her more marriageable. Moses was thought to have come from such a union, and was swapped the Phaeroh's dead baby.
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Old 10-31-11   #83
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeast View Post
Many of the pre-Christian mystery cults of the middle East would have Temple Priestesses serving the Temple as Prostitutes. Any child resulting from this service was said to be born "Of the God" thus preserving the integrity of the girl in question, and making her more marriageable. Moses was thought to have come from such a union, and was swapped the Phaeroh's dead baby.
Sources please?
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Old 10-31-11   #84
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Logically, scientifically, of course there wasn't a virgin birth. Humans are mammals, and that kind of thing just cannot/does not happen. Period. End of story.

Theologically, you ask me if I believe in the virgin birth, and... I get very confused, internally. Mind fights with gut, and in the end, all I can say is, "I just don't know."

Actually, I was talking to Loh about this last night, and got into all SORTS of intricate, pseudo-logic and hypothesizing, and came up with an interesting answer, but it's so hippy bullshit that I don't really feel comfortable sharing it at this moment.

Spiritually, I am very confused these days. (They say that such things lead to growth. I do hope so.)
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Old 10-31-11   #85
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Quote:
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Many of the pre-Christian mystery cults of the middle East would have Temple Priestesses serving the Temple as Prostitutes. Any child resulting from this service was said to be born "Of the God" thus preserving the integrity of the girl in question, and making her more marriageable. Moses was thought to have come from such a union, and was swapped the Phaeroh's dead baby.
I have read something similar to this in relation to the priestesses who served in the temples of Hathor. However, firm evidence seems hard to come by.
Again I have to ask what are your references for this?
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Old 10-31-11   #86
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

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Many of the pre-Christian mystery cults of the middle East would have Temple Priestesses serving the Temple as Prostitutes. Any child resulting from this service was said to be born "Of the God" thus preserving the integrity of the girl in question, and making her more marriageable. Moses was thought to have come from such a union, and was swapped the Phaeroh's dead baby.
I remember reading about this, but not in relation with Egyptian sources. The sources were Akkadian/Sumerian/Babylonian and revolved around the priestesses of Ishtar/Inanna. There is some evidence for their existence. The rite of sacred marriage (hieros gamos, in Greece) did have a connection with children: children born during midwinter after the spring equinox union between priestess and ruler would be called 'son of' and 'daughter of' God.

I have never heard of an Egyptian link to this.
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Old 10-31-11   #87
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

The following is from an essay by Caroline Seawright, Ancient Egyptian Sexuality. Link.
Quote:
Itinerant Performers and 'Prostitutes'

The Egyptian sacred 'prostitute' (who was probably a highly regarded as a member of Egyptian society because of her association with different gods or goddesses (such as Bes and Hathor), rather than the street walker that the modern mind imagines) advertised herself through her clothing and make up. Some of these women wore blue faience beaded fish-net dresses. They painted their lips red, and tattooed themselves on the breasts or thighs and even went around totally nude. There is no evidence that these women were paid for these fertility-related acts, so some believe that word 'prostitute' is probably an incorrect term for these women.


Another idea, pointed out to me by Daniel Kolos, an Egyptologist academically trained at the University of Toronto, is that this premarital sexual activity might be a prerequisite for marriage. One of the theories that disassociates these women from being prostitutes, is that their sexual activity could be part of a "coming-of-age ritual", just as circumcision was one for males. With Egypt's heavy emphasis on fertility as the defining nature of a man or a woman, this idea is a highly likely probability.

Other theories could be that the young virgin girls joined itinerant performing groups - dancers, singers and the like - and during their time with these groups they experienced their first sexual encounters. If a girl became pregnant, she would probably leave the troupe to head home to her family with proof of her fertility. (Motherhood was venerated, giving a woman a much higher status in society, so pregnancy was something to be proud of in ancient Egypt.)
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Old 12-07-11   #88
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

Seasonal bump.
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The Virgin Birth of Jesus is central to a lot of Christian theology, beliefs and practices, but it is not believed or interpreted the same way by all Christians. The motif of a "Virgin Birth" is not unique to Christianity and can be found in many pre-Christian and Pagan traditions. So what is the myth of the Virgin Birth about generally and in what way is the Christian version different or unique?
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Old 09-19-12   #89
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Default Re: Christian Mythology-The Virgin Birth

At the risk of jacking the thread on what is after all, a side topic, I'll try and expand on the Moses thing. I may have not been very clear (may not?) I can't remember where I pulled the Moses/Pharaoh connection from, so the only source I'm citing here is Exodus, and while it isn't exactly specific, there is enough allegory remaining to hint that the relationship between Pharaoh and Moses was far more intimate than just a Master/Slave one. (Also that the relationship between Egypt and the Hebrews was more complicated than one of simple slavery)

In Exodus ch1 v15 For no explicable reason, Pharaoh approaches the Hebrew Midwives, and instructs them to kill any sons born of the Hebrew Women. Why would he do such a thing? The Hebrew men were Egypt's builders, architects, artisans, skilled in the working of stone. they built the great Cities of Egypt, their sons were too valuable to kill, just on a whim.

Going by the only main historical / mythical trope of any real prevalence, the only reason Kings ever order the deaths of infant boys, is because of a threat to the said King, or a 'complication' in the line of succession. From this not particularly unlikely premise, let's assume that Pharaoh, or someone close to the line of succession, had been jollying around with a Hebrew girl, and that she was carrying a Royal seed of the bloodline in her fecund Hebrew womb.

As the succession was through the male line, the fact that Pharaoh specified that only baby boys were to be killed, lends weight to the theory that he saw a threat to the Throne. The Hebrew midwives went away from Pharaoh, but because they feared God more than they feared Pharaoh, they disobeyed him, and delivered the boys alive.

When Pharaoh called them back and demanded to know why they had disobeyed, (Ex ch2 v19) they replied; "Because the Hebrew Women are not like the Egyptian Women; for they are lively, and are delivered before the midwife come to them"

Now there's a clue here too. Why include that anecdote unless it was important?
"Because the Hebrew Women are not like the Egyptian Women; for they are lively, ?
This alludes to the well established fact that due to too much inbreeding, the Egyptian Royal line was prone to . . . shall we say, birth complications (Including sterility) The Royal line of the old Kingdom died right out because of this. So this makes it even more likely that any son born of this Hebrew Woman could cause problems down the line should Rameses precarious geneplasm fail to seed in the womb of his sister, or his aunt or whoever he was married to.

So Pharaoh sent the midwives away, and charged all of the people (Ex ch1 v 22) "Every son who is born, ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive"

So, next, this Daughter of Levi, who was born of a son, turns out she had hidden him away for the first 3 months of his life. But why? This was at the time when Pharaoh's orders had not been carried out. How did she know to hide her son away, unless she knew that as Pharaoh's bastard, he would be at risk? So she put him in a basket of Bullrushes, and (this is important too) set him into the river.

Why should Pharoah specify that the boys be "cast into the river"? Why should he specify only boys? The most Sacred sacrificial ceremony in Egypt, was the sacrifice of the Apis Bull. When it's time came, at 25 years of age, the Bull would be ritually drowned in the river. Then it would be mourned, until they found the next Apis Bull, then they would celebrate, and start again with the new Bull.

The new Bull represented the reincarnated Osiris, and when it was found, it was kept in a stable, adjacent to the Temple, where it was kept for 25 years, until it's time too, came.

When Moses was cast adrift, in his basket of Bullrushes, Pharaoh's daughter found him, caught among the Bullrushes, and took him home to rear him as her own.

This makes a blatant parallel to the newly reincarnated Apis Bull, as Osiris, "taken to a stable adjacent to the Temple" to be reared. (Ex ch2 v 9) "And the child grew, and she (the nurse) brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses, and said "Because I drew him out of the water" (another allusion the Moses being the reincarnated God King, Osiris)

Anyway, the writers of Exodus put a particular emphasis on the Bull theme. The Bull was the most sacred Egyptian animal, and Moses, as Prophet was born as the Sun entered the age of Taurus, thus becoming the Avatar for that age. He's even depicted in Church statues as having the horns of a Bull.


And although the House of Levi is where Moses Mother came from, his Father is not mentioned by name, only as another Levite. This is unusual for the OT, Judging by the care they took over lineage in the Book of Numbers. Another hint that Moses was the latest in a long line of Sun Kings /Avatars incarnated fatherlessly.(Virgin birth, just being another interpretation of the common "divine father" trope)

OK? Sorry it took so long to answer but there's my source.
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Last edited by BadBeast; 09-19-12 at 09:10 AM. Reason: edited for grammar
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