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Old 03-18-19   #41
Fethenwen
 
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Default Re: Merry Meet!

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Originally Posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
I'm going to contradict Fethenwen here a bit. Not all paths have the notion of guides, totems, etc. In fact if you go back to many books written in the 80's and 90's you will not even find the notion of guides within the framework of Wicca or Witchcraft. They didn't exist and were not part of the structure of those pathways. About the only thing you'd be likely to find was possibly the idea of a familiar. Then a familiar was nothing like what you'll find today where everyone seems to use their favorite pet, but was actually a demonic entity, usually an Imp.

The usage of guides really became incorporated in many pathway's in the late 1990's and early 2000's with the incorporation of shamanic influences. They came in along with the notion of "Totems" and to be honest suddenly everyone simply had to have one or more. About the same time the idea of "Animals" also became part of the lexicon and everyone suddenly had a Spirit Animal or Power Animal. Unfortunately, much of that seemed to have occurred at about the same time that many authors started to incorporate this idea of a Pantheon of Native American influences. Completely ignoring there is no such thing as a Pantheon of Native American Divinities.

Around this same time frame you also start to see a lot of inclusions of African Disapora influences. That would be your Santeria, VooDoo, Hoodoo, Brujo, Bruja, inclusion of the LOA and other spirits. There had been some local influences but nothing like you start seeing in books and such in the late 90's and 2000's and forward.
Have to get back to this idea of spirit guides, as I believe - as not sure - but still - that most cultures around the globe have at some point before organized religion had some kind of idea of protective spirits that are unique to each individual or family or tribe. Not just animal spirits, but also ancestors, angels, nature spirits, etc. Even in my ancestry there was an idea of protective spirits, spirits that protected the house, children, even your stove and your own protector that was deeply connected to nature - called often "your nature". This could have been an animal spirit, often a bear, which was also worshipped in many parts of the country.
Yes, perhaps spirit guides were not an important part in the wicca tradition until later on, but I would not ignore this concept just because they were not mentioned in books before 80's 90's.
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Old 03-18-19   #42
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Default Re: Merry Meet!

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Have to get back to this idea of spirit guides, as I believe - as not sure - but still - that most cultures around the globe have at some point before organized religion had some kind of idea of protective spirits that are unique to each individual or family or tribe. Not just animal spirits, but also ancestors, angels, nature spirits, etc. Even in my ancestry there was an idea of protective spirits, spirits that protected the house, children, even your stove and your own protector that was deeply connected to nature - called often "your nature". This could have been an animal spirit, often a bear, which was also worshipped in many parts of the country.
Yes, perhaps spirit guides were not an important part in the wicca tradition until later on, but I would not ignore this concept just because they were not mentioned in books before 80's 90's.
Again Personally I find it doubtful that people had individual protective spirits. The idea of clan, tribal, cultural are not unheard of and not disputed but then again those are not aimed at the individual in general.

If you look to ancient Greece you find the idea of the agathodaemon (good Daemons of Vineyards & Grainfields), Eudaemon (Good Daemons in general) and Kakodaemon (evil or bad Daemon). But they were cultural in general not aimed at specific individuals. Within the idea of ancestral hero's you had the Hero's as well as ones own ancestors but they watched over the entire family not the individual.

Generally that ancestral idea extended to the Orient as well. The ancestors watched over the entire family not specifically the individual though the actions of an individual could shame the entire line.

Angelic beings existed as you said across many systems but again they didn't tend to be protectors of individuals. That though is not to say people couldn't ask them for protection via charms, spells, jewelry, etc. Yet it also didn't mean the angelic or demonic host for that matter actually granted such protections. The church equally sold salvation's for a price and one could wear that about their neck as well.

I won't deny that some area's had more folkish belief systems than others. Fairy godmother's were more than just stories in some areas, just as was the notion of having blood lineage to the Fae. But that was also the exception vice the norm. Same as the odds of meeting the death coach on the roads during a storm on the Irish Countryside. That being with or without having Irish Ancestry. That or traveling the countryside in Scotland and encountering a Red Cap, whether you have Scottish Blood and be in Bonnie Scotland or elsewhere. Sure, that Brownie might in fact be protecting your home and hearth if that is your cultural norm. But that's cultural norm and has nothing to do with practicing any craft or belief in the craft for that came from culture not craft. That and probably came from British Cultural influence if I recall my Brownie lore correctly though all lore has something similar but still has nothing to do with the craft or magic.

However, that is the problem. Those same authors took various cultural items and included them as fillers and suddenly they became requirements for spiritual and magical pathways. Now people continue to perpetuate those idea's that you have to have these cultural or folkish items within their pathways for it to be this or that. Yet in truth have no idea where or why they are being included. For that matter what purpose they actually served in the culture, folklore or heritage that it is being borrowed from.

But they have to have them and spout them off like badges of honor. What's funny though is when they claim divinities and heritages that never used them. Cultures that never identified with them in the way they try to represent them. Especially for time frames they are claiming with the divinities they are claiming.

To me to be honest it's about as funny as a witch claiming her cat as her familiar. I think it was Mama Silver who said your pet kitty can be your familiar and that one stuck. Even though traditionally a familiar is an other worldly entity. But then along came Harry Potter.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #43
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^ Fair enough. I must say, you must be the first person I've heard so far to actually claim that not everyone has a spiritguide. I haven't even considered this to be an option.

Perhaps I should start a thread and we can continue the discussion.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #44
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Default Re: Merry Meet!

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^ Fair enough. I must say, you must be the first person I've heard so far to actually claim that not everyone has a spiritguide. I haven't even considered this to be an option.

Perhaps I should start a thread and we can continue the discussion.
I would enjoy that discussion.
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