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Old 02-11-12   #81
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by Myliobatis View Post
Thanks, Fera. <3

It's a good thing I don't assume what individual's "levels" are based on posts. 'Cause, you know... internet, and all that. Credentials can be researched, when individuals claim such things.
If that's aimed at me - by all means. I don't have an MA as I said. I have training in Canine Nutrition, in herbalism,2 years undergrad Religion, and that's about it. I study with Mara Freeman in the Avalon mystery School and I trained in Wicca in the 80s. The rest is all self taught. I don't see what bearing any of this has on the thread, though.


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don't claim credentials (as it's not like you can have actual credentials in tarot anyway), and the only things I can share are my experiences.
There are courses of study you can take, I can suggest a few if you're interested..? I did take the BOTA Tarot course years ago and while it's not a credential it did elevate my skill considerably. I'd suggest however starting with something like LearningTarot.com. BOTA is pretty intense stuff.





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I'm glad you receive wisdom and messages in that manner. If that works for you, by all means.
It does, yes, thank you. I'm a Witch, and I excel at certain skills, Tarot among them.

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ISometimes, when I have the leisure to do so, I will meditate and research and pray and so forth. Sometimes, when I don't have that leisure, I do some emergency research, and ultimately listen to my "gut."
You must be a lot busier than I. I make time for spiritual work every day, pretty much, and I'm run off my feet with studies and paid work and animals.
Seriously, though - herein lies the difference between us - and why your own reading took four hours and ultimately you were not able to discern the truth of it. A serious practitioner would never express such an attitude" if I have a few spare moments I might do a divination". I have the skill I have not because I am much older than you, not because I have a greater natural gift - because I respect my Craft and I work at it. I have for decades. It's fine that you are so dismissive of the work and the Art but really, dear, you don't know anything about it. I was skeptical of many aspects myself for years but I perservered. At this point I have put in the work and paid the dues, and I DO trust my oracle and my Path. There is no way to convey anything of this to you; you are ignorant, think you know better, and in fact, if the truth be told - you know nothing.

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Divination tools don't have power inherently, in and of themselves. They are pretty cards, or carved stones, or any other manner of object that humankind has used over the course of history and prehistory. I can use a plastic D-20 just as accurately as a gorgeously-crafted set of wood runes (for simple concerns, anyway). It is our intuition, or the influence of a higher power, which carries the message. So, while I appreciate divination tools, as they are helpful in creating a picture (especially helpful if you're "stuck" or your emotions are too mixed to clearly make out the message)... I see them as a middleman. Helpful, artistic, and definitely a valuable tool... but a middleman, nonetheless.
Cards, runes etc are indeed the medium for the message, but the reader's ability to understand what is said is entirely her own.


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I like to carefully analyze my endeavors (when possible), and logically understand them (and their possible consequences) before undertaking them. I would never dream of making a critical decision based on "divination." I personally feel that if something is so beyond me, so mercurial, so murky and mystical and shrouded in incense and Latin, that I have to rely on something like tarot or a pendulum to figure out whether it's a good idea or not... I'm sorry, but I wouldn't do such a thing.
That's probably a good thing, too.
And yet - I am curious, you did one lengthy reading many years ago, and your conclusion from the cards was wrong - so you base your entire outlook on their value on your own admittedly not-so-experienced blunder? Curious contradiction there, methinks.


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It's like performing surgery in the dark, and praying that God guides your hands. It might turn out, I suppose. But then again, I don't like those odds. Probably wouldn't have my surgery there.

But, I guess, that's just me. If you trust God (etc) to guide the surgeon's hands in the dark, by all means.
I find that analogy absurd in the extreme- I can only suppose it was intended for comic relief?



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Okeedokie! I realize that some religions have educational systems in place to certify priests as counselors and the like, so I have no doubt that folk/private training can be important.

Many, many people are good listeners, and have good advice to give, and are not licensed professionals. I'm just not sure where the line is drawn between "favorite aunt" or "mom's best friend", and "counselor (with no license or credentials)." Hypothetically, all three individuals could have the same training, experience, and innate talent.

It's kind of like the whole, "Life Coach" thing. No credentials, no regulation. They're hyper-popular, though.y
You can belittle me all you like Myliobatis, and others who work as I do. It still doesn't change who I am. Nothing you say can touch the thing you're lashing out at - and why.



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Would you use tarot to decide on an appropriate dog food recipe? Lay out a line of ingredients, and hold a pendulum to pick the best? Put it all in the oven (etc), and flip a coin every five minutes to see if it's time to take it out?
My goodness what silliness. I use tarot to help with questions of heart and soul, of how to approach a situation - not to replace science. In my years of life I have learned when to rely on the inside of the box as well when to think outside of it. When you write things like this I have to wonder if you hear yourself, or just love the sound of your own typing so much you will say anything. This sort of thing is pure nonsense. The sort of thing you're talking about here is idiocy, not correct use of an oracle.



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Fera, you wouldn't create a canine nutrition plan based on what a tarot reading indicated, would you?
As you like this analogy enough to use it twice, and it's still just as nonsensical - I'll say it again. Only a fool fails to discern between situations that call for science or a purely practical approach, and those that require soul searching. No client in 30 years has ever come to me and asked how to bake a cake. you're making your point weaker, not stronger, by asking me these idiotic questions.

What it boils down to is, you don't understand or trust any oracle, and I do, So I am calling an end to this self indulgent public display of personal disagreement. I'm happy for you in your worldview, but this is a metaphysical/spiritual/occult forum and many of us DO practise, trust and work with oracles. We might now allow some who DO practise the Art to speak as well.

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Old 02-11-12   #82
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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I think this is getting seriously off-topic - who else thinks that it would be a good idea to split the thread and put this stuff under divination, returning this thread to ethics?

blessings
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ffetcher -- anyone can start another thread if they like, but endless raving about how the tarot, runes etc are all a bunch of bunk will not be allowed here. There are many boards around for non-practitioners; here, we respect the traditions people work in. Loud-mouthed dilettantes and skeptics who belittle (or try to) real practitioners, can go elsewhere.

I just called this thread back On Topic, at the same time you were posting so - back on topic it is indeed.
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Old 02-11-12   #83
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by TheThing View Post
There's way too much here for me to address given that it's the middle of the night and I am very tired....but I have to say a few things, then I'll leave it to others, as I'm sure there will be many comments.

First off....as an overall assessment....It sounds like you have absolutely no respect for any form or practice of divination. Kind of an odd attitude to hear from someone who is posting on a spiritual/metaphysical discussion forum.

You poop on Tarot, Runes, Astrology, Prayer, etc....is there anything that you don't think is a load of crap?

I'm sure that your God(s) really appreciates that you pray when you...."have the leisure to do so"....

Not the best attitude to approach Deity, meditation, or research with, imo.



I'd like to know exactly what you are attempting to say here Mylio?

If you have something you'd like to say....come out and say it.

Only a coward speaks in meta message, read between the lines, type of language....Or someone that doesn't have anything to say but wants other people to think that they do....Which I think is the case in this instance.
Thing... ...forest dolphins to you.
It's ok - you know that irritating as it can be, none of this touches me anymore,. I'm hoping to get the thread back on topic and stop this public airing of personal differences. For whatever reason Myliobatis has taken a turn against me, she has, and that's perfectly fine, certainly not the first time, lol. As long as it stays off this forum, and I don't have to infract or remove anyone, and everything stays calm, it's all good.
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Old 02-11-12   #84
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
For whatever reason Myliobatis has taken a turn against me, she has, and that's perfectly fine,
Goodness Heavens' Sakes, Fera. Not everyone who disagrees with you is out to get you. I don't tend to "turn against" people, because if I liked someone, and then I didn't, I generally just disconnect from them. I wouldn't be back here on ESF if I was "turning against" you. I'm here because I like the people here, and I see value and a story in ALL of us, including you. I don't DO the vicious-stalky thing.

You attacked me personally, claiming that because I had a single inaccurate tarot reading years ago (given as an example as to why long-term readings aren't always the most reliable thing to base important decisions on), among countless readings over the years, and yet you use that single example as a reason to poke fun at my "talent" or "training" or whatever? Really?

I am frustrated that you and your hubby/type think that I'm "pooping" on things like astrology and tarot... let alone prayer... when the reality is that I am expressing a healthy amount of skepticism, NOT absolute disbelief. Just because I don't consult mass-market printed cards or my ZET (astrology) program every time I put my shoes on doesn't mean I don't see the value in them. I just don't treat them with blind reverence.

Hell, I don't treat "God" with blind obedience! I was born with a very capable mind, and it is my impression that I'm intended to use it! It's not like I'm incapable of spiritual belief - if I really wanted to, I could walk around with my eyes closed, deep in meditative prayer, that God place each foot in precisely the best position for me to walk safely. But... s/he already did that. It's called my body and brain, and they are so well-created, that I can put each foot in front of the other, reliably and safely, day in and day out. "God's" already "doing" it. I don't have to hold my breath and wish for it to happen. The beauty and blessings of this Universe are in every single thing, not just metaphysical objects or rituals or deep prayer. Every breath is a prayer. Every step is guided. My body was created by thousands of millions of years of evolution - the incredible creative process of our Universe. If we are a painting, natural processes such as fusion and evolution are the brushstrokes. The Divine created humans - humans created tarot. What on Earth is wrong with me preferring to focus on the "divination tool" created by God Herself?

Don't make petty swipes at my spirituality because I disagree with your reliance on a deck of cards. I never said your practices were invalid. I disagreed with the stupid little detail of how-far-out the results would go, and whether it was really necessary to take a leap of faith when a carefully-calculated trajectory would serve just as well, or better. We are arguing over a stupid little detail.

It is clear that you would consult some form of man-made divination tool in order to see if casting a love spell was a good idea, and that I would not, preferring to brainstorm the possibilities and weigh my options. That's fine. I'm not going to burst into your house one day, and demand that you do what I'm saying, and that you're immature, inexperienced, and clearly not as much of a special snowflake if you don't agree with me and my methods.

Okay? You're right for you, I'm right for me, and neither of us has the Holy Mandate to declare that the other is a lesser human being. You're supposed to be all about "wisdom" in your path, aren't you? Where's the wisdom in belittling someone because they see the sacred and metaphysical in a different channel than you do? No, okay? I don't think any man-made divination tool should be used for serious concerns. I'm preeeetty sure I made that abundantly clear. Nevertheless, I NEVER said that people who use tarot (insert demeaning statement about individual's spirituality here). What you choose to do with your time, energy, and money, is your business. People can be different without the other being less than, and this whole damned personal argument is patently dumb.

Can this be over?

Ffetcher made some really good points that got me thinking, and that I'm going to consider. Please note that he didn't have to insinuate how much more awesome he is than me, for me to see what he was trying to say. Oddly enough, his approach got through to me.

You and I are alike. We both think we're right, and we're both passionate about it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when people get passionate, they tend to lose the ability to convey their opinion in a subtle, gentle manner. Ffetcher might inwardly think that I'm being too literal, or too pragmatic... but he didn't take a swipe at me, he explained why he felt I was wrong, in a calm and really neutral manner. He even called out something I said as being a fallacy, and while I didn't see it when I wrote it (otherwise...), I can kind of see what he's saying, and I appreciate the way he helped me see that.

I'm not in my fifties or sixties. I don't claim to be "wise." I don't claim to be an expert on, really, anything. I've had plenty of training in a variety of skills and philosophies, formal and informal, but all of that is irrelevant if one can't convey that knowledge in an accurate and informative way. I'm someone who's learned things "the hard way" for the past (almost) thirty years, and I hold beliefs about stuff. Opinions. I get passionate, and I am easily exasperated, and I will run my mouth for miles at a time, rehashing the same point in a desperate attempt to get the other person to understand what I'm saying. I, uh, don't succeed that often. The thing about it, is that I don't pretend to think that I'm all-knowing. I have an opinion that I came to through experience, logic, and lots of consideration, and I think it's correct - why else would I hold it? So I desperately try to explain it to others until they understand it. Now, of course I think they'll change their minds if they truly comprehend the grand reality of the opinion (whatever it may be!), but the reality is, they probably won't. Most people's minds cannot be changed, especially on an internet forum.

I get frustrated because, although I am opinionated, my opinions have been changed before, by a sufficiently illustrated explanation of an alternate belief. Because I have been able to learn and change, I assume that others can, too, and that if I could only explain the facts well enough, they'd adjust (or change entirely) their position.

This is naive, and I know it. Doesn't stop it from happening, but there it is.

Ugh. Go on for miles. See what I mean?

Look. Can we stop this stupid "divination" kick? I looked for another thread in one of the other forums, but it didn't look like it'd been split or moved or whatever, so I'm replying here.

If you want to infract or ban me for trying to calmly reply to you in the only place I knew to reply to, in an attempt to reach a peaceful resolution, then, whatever, I guess? I'm just trying to communicate. So, yeah.

I need to go find something to eat. I woke up, hours early, thinking about this dumb argument, and came straight to the computer. So I'm hungry, and tired, and wearing jammies.

Thank goodness there aren't live webcams in each of our signatures. An oversized white men's t-shirt I stole from my dad, and my fuzzy cupcake pattern jamma bottoms, are just SO not flattering. Also, I shudder to think what my hair looks like.

o_O; K. Argument over?
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Old 02-11-12   #85
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by Myliobatis View Post
Goodness Heavens' Sakes, Fera. Not everyone who disagrees with you is out to get you.
I think what fera said was....
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Originally Posted by feranaja
For whatever reason Myliobatis has taken a turn against me, she has, and that's perfectly fine,
Many people have both noticed this and commented on this recently Mylio.

If you are unaware of doing this you might want to review some of your recent posts, it's quite evident in many of them.
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Old 02-11-12   #86
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

Well to be back on track ...again. years ago I did do an attraction spell....on my now husband, however we were already attracted to each other, but I didn't really wanted to make the first move.... (even though in a round about way I did ) I feel I just helped it along ...alittle. I feel there has to already be something there in the first place or it won't work or stick. A love spell is something different to me anyway....I wouldn't want to do that, because of the already mentioned reasons.
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Old 02-11-12   #87
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

In my previous post I made an Administrative statement. I will repeat it here for clarity's sake:

What it boils down to is, you don't understand or trust any oracle, and I do, So I am calling an end to this self indulgent public display of personal disagreement. I'm happy for you in your worldview, but this is a metaphysical/spiritual/occult forum and many of us DO practise, trust and work with oracles. We might now allow some who DO practise the Art to speak as well.

feranaja __________________

As that was thoroughly ignored I am infracting myliobatis 5 points. The nasty, innuendo-laden text, speaks for itself. NO MORE ON THIS FROM MYLIOBATIS, if you cannot control your interminable outbursts, send them in PM. DO NOT CONTINUE in this vein on my forum.
Last warning, absolutely.
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Old 02-11-12   #88
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

I support this action.
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Old 02-11-12   #89
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

Oh, deleted, it's none of my business, and it would only lead to Shouting.
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Old 02-25-14   #90
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Okay so I had this thought that popped up in my head. Okay so one of the biggest taboos in magick is to cast a love spell on a certain person to make them fall in love with you. Apparently other than the argument of free will, you also have to worry about negative, unforseen consequences such as what if the person isn't who you thought he/she was and they turn out to be really wrong for you, or they are abusive. Assuming it worked in the first place. But also what if the person you casted a spell on turned out to not share the sexual orientation as you. Like it happens all the time that a straight girl with no gaydar thinks she's met her prince charming and he turns out to be gay, . That's the personal angle I'm working from since I can identify with it. Okay so I've never casted a love spell on a gentleman, much less someone who turned out gay, but I did kind of temporarily crushed on a guy I knew that ended up being gay, although these days he claims to be bisexual but still comes across totally gay. But anyway, that's just something that entered my thoughts. And given the type of men I'm mostly attracted to as far as looks, personality, charm, etc it can happen to me

Anyway, what's your thoughts on casting direct love spells for any reason?
There are different formats of love spells and what you are talking about does not exist in real love spells because they are cast to make someone love you, love is a huge word which covers things you have mentioned above. So if the real love spell is at work, i doubt if you can experience such things however what you can say is to just cast binding spell because this spell just bind you with someone but without making that person be with control on how he/ she loves you. But still binding spell accompanied with love spell can never put you in such state.
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