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Old 04-12-11   #11
RoseRed
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
you can have your wars, then. I think our species has suffered, and caused suffering, far too much, and I'll take peace.
I am right there with you. I much prefer peace.

I've never been able to understand how a small group of people feel the have the ability to apologize for the acts of many. Yes - they feel bad and they can apologize for their own actions in the past but they cannot and do not speak for the (in this instance) men that continue in their dominating behaviors.
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Old 04-12-11   #12
Cassie
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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Originally Posted by Fethenwen View Post

Well, many were not able to watch the whole thing, and I was surprised to see all the angry comments it received. Most comments were childish, like these men are all gay, they are just saying these things to get laid etc. But some thought it was very scary, cultish and wrong on many levels.
I can see why some would be disturbed by it. Interesting that some of the criticisms included "accusations" that these men were all gay;- as if that alone would invalidate what they are saying. The world still has a lot of growing up to do!
However I do agree with Kokab'al..
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Originally Posted by Kokaba'al View Post
It's... SO cheesy, that bothers me some.


It's easy to say stuff. It's whether they then work with it that actually counts.
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This, a million times this. Balance is key. A situation where one gender is held in a regard which is above the other is always going to bring about unfavourable things..
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Originally Posted by Feyhu View Post
i made it to 1:30 then determined that the same thing was being said over and over.
Sorry was being said repeatedly. But you could argue that masculine dominance has a lot to apologise for!
Anyway, such apologies are not unprecedented. There have been apologies to victims of various wars and periods of oppression such as apartheid in South Africa, to the descendants of slaves transported to America, to the victims of the holocaust...
Apology and reconciliation is often necessary before people can move forward.

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
you can have your wars, then. I think our species has suffered, and caused suffering, far too much, and I'll take peace.

Balance for me doesn't mean we need to rape the planet and murder the innocent so peace and kindness can exist. It means night follows day and death follows life, as life follows death. It means the natural world replenishes itself and that we humans must respect those cycles. It has nothing whatsoever to do with violence, and the "necessity of evil" so kindness and generosity can exist.
.
Agreed. Some people seem to have an odd idea o what balance and harmony mean.
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Old 04-12-11   #13
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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Balance for me doesn't mean we need to rape the planet and murder the innocent so peace and kindness can exist.
Fera, I'm not really too sure what to say, here. I would have hoped that after having communicated with me for as long as you have now, you might have got to know me a little better, but apparently not. I'm disappointed.

I do not believe that war, rape of the planet, and exploitation are necessary. What I do believe, however, is that the *impulses* to do those things exist within the human mind and emotions, and have to be channelled and appropriately managed, precisely so that said type of exploitation can be avoided.

There might be some people who are sufficiently highly evolved that they don't have problems related to egotism, or anger management. If so, they are laudable. I on the other hand, am not so highly evolved, at the current time. So if I find myself becoming angry, (as I often do, given the state of things) I have to ask myself whether the morally preferable thing to do, is to go out and engage in violence on a real, physical level; or do something like playing World of Warcraft where nobody else actually gets hurt.

As far as the issue of eating animals is concerned, for the most part I'm not going to go there, because I have more respect for you as an individual, than I do for veganism as a movement. You have your reasons for the way you live; I have mine. You've sent me articles yourself that cited research, that human beings really do need animal protein in order to survive.
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Old 04-12-11   #14
Fabienne S. Morgana
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

Personally - I tend to agree with Cassie... I think apologies are important - they acknowledge hurt.

True - it is somewhat cheesy = but, a heartfelt apology in private is somewhat easier then structuring a public one... I cannot see how you would make the same points, without being a little cheesy - like wedding vows.. out of context, they are often wincingly awful - but in the moment, viewed with an open heart, they are beautiful and meaningful.

I found this ages ago, and have shared it with some of my male friends - with very powerful responses - positive ones.

http://soulshaping.com/?p=782

It is similar. It is late for me, but I think I saw Jeff Brown's name in the credits somewhere = correct me if I am wrong? His presence is on the facebook page for the Manifesto of Conscious Men (which is the fb page connected to video)

Beloved found it very moving, and I have structured a mediation around it for him and recorded it for him to listen to when he is going to sleep.
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Old 04-12-11   #15
Fabienne S. Morgana
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/SOULSH...#!/SOULSHAPING

http://www.soulshaping.com/
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Old 04-12-11   #16
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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As I have said, Kali and Shiva must co-exist; Odin and Ma Durga must stand beside Gandhi and Kwan Yin.
There's a prevailing sense on the forums - well ok, not "prevailing" but I've heard it over and over - check the "love and hate are equal" thread; that if we don't have "evil" we cant have good. You know this one; people call it "balance" when it is anything but. I don't really see you as someone upholding this stuff, but when you say things like the above it kinda looks like you're slipping, down the long slope of self-justifying illogic.
and truthfully - I do know you better than that. Just making a point.
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Old 04-12-11   #17
petrus4
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
There's a prevailing sense on the forums - well ok, not "prevailing" but I've heard it over and over - check the "love and hate are equal" thread; that if we don't have "evil" we cant have good. You know this one; people call it "balance" when it is anything but. I don't really see you as someone upholding this stuff, but when you say things like the above it kinda looks like you're slipping, down the long slope of self-justifying illogic.
and truthfully - I do know you better than that. Just making a point.
My moral judgement is generally based on effects, rather than causes.

In other words, if a given individual has violent or militaristic emotional impulses, I am not going to consider said impulses, by themselves, to automatically be evil. What said individual chooses to *do* with said impulses, however, very well could be.

I often experience said emotional impulses myself. However, when experiencing anger, I am also presented with a choice. I could go outside, and find someone to engage in violence, or even murder, or I could take out said negative emotion on an animal, as many people do, and as you yourself object to.

I can, however, also choose to do other things with said emotions. I can channel them into work that I am doing, or I can play certain computer games in which they can be harmlessly expressed, analogous to a lightning rod. Or I can do japa, and release them.

Self-identification as an anarchist means that I have a moral responsibility towards self-management. In other words, if I have a problem, I have to deal with it. Sometimes that means asking someone else for help, but asking someone else for help doesn't mean that I imply that my problems are their responsibility. They are mine.

As for the equation of good and evil, and the absurd presumption that freedom from the "dual paradox," is a necessary prerequisite of spiritual maturity, I have voiced my own disagreement with such many times, and will likely continue to do so.
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Old 04-12-11   #18
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
There's a prevailing sense on the forums - well ok, not "prevailing" but I've heard it over and over - check the "love and hate are equal" thread; that if we don't have "evil" we cant have good. You know this one; people call it "balance" when it is anything but. I don't really see you as someone upholding this stuff, but when you say things like the above it kinda looks like you're slipping, down the long slope of self-justifying illogic.
and truthfully - I do know you better than that. Just making a point.
without evil, the concept of good cannot exist for it is the norm.
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Old 04-12-11   #19
Cassie
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

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without evil, the concept of good cannot exist for it is the norm.
That's like saying that without Apples, Oranges couldn't exist.
Or if you want to confine it to opposite "concepts"; it's like saying that without "rough"; "smooth" could not exist.

It is simply not true. Good, evil, apples, oranges, smooth and rough can all exist independently of each other.

Love does not depend for it's existence on hate, nor vice versa.
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Old 04-12-11   #20
RoseRed
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Default Re: video "Dear Woman" causing an outrage

Without evil - good just simply wouldn't need a definition.
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Last edited by RoseRed; 04-13-11 at 08:29 AM.
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