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Old 02-01-12   #31
TheThing
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by Myliobatis View Post
Well, despite the insult some folks have taken to my last main paragraph, in that paragraph I simply stated that I personally didn't understand the obsession some folks had with making sex the center of (all romantic) relationships, and my reason for it. I never stated that my relationship was the model for ALL relationships, or that sex is unnecessary! (And for someone to take away from that that I'd never "ha(d) 'blow the top off your head' sex multiple times a day," in my committed relationship has... a very timid view of me! )
While you didn't quote me, as in, using the quote function, you did quote a phrase that I had used in my post, so I presume that this is directed at me.

I can assure you that I took no insult out of what you had posted.

I did however take issue with you seeming to state how much sex was proper or healthy for another individual to have in their relationship.

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Originally Posted by Myliobatis View Post
(And for someone to take away from that that I'd never "ha(d) 'blow the top off your head' sex multiple times a day," in my committed relationship has... a very timid view of me! )
I can also assure you that I took no such thing away from your first post.

You are the one who brought the 'frequency of sex in relationships' topic into this thread.

Perhaps you took something out of "(why would I?)"?

Why would I challenge you on something that you posted about your life?....The answer....I wouldn't.....hence...."(why would I)"

I think you should reread my post.

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Originally Posted by TheThing View Post
While I don't dispute that this is the case for you Mylio (why would I), stating that this is, or should be, the case for everyone is delusional at best, dictatorial at worst. It's no different than me saying that a relationship is irrelevant and worth nothing unless you are having 'blow the top off your head' sex multiple times a day.

Different strokes for different folks.

There's no absolute right or wrong. There's only what right for us as individuals, and it's only right if we, decide for ourselves as individuals. Plus what might be right at one stage in one's life might be wrong at a different stage.

As for the OP, I agree with what everybody else has said. At best - not a good idea. At worst - what Koka said - "Spiritual/emotional rape".

You'd be far better off engaging in activities that you enjoy and meeting as many people as possible and see if love and/or friendship doesn't blossom that way.
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Old 02-01-12   #32
PrincessKLS

 
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
Rep. Understanding that people are on different paths and should be understood, not informed or told what to do, is the root and foundation of wisdom.

On that note though, if spells and pagan ethics is supposed to be free will and gray magick (neither black or white), why so many taboos when it comes to it and why direct love spells being the most controversial?
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Old 02-02-12   #33
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by PrincessKLS View Post
Anyway, what's your thoughts on casting direct love spells for any reason?
I would never do it. I don't want anyone to love me because I made them. I want them to love me because they love me.

-Jet
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Old 02-02-12   #34
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by PrincessKLS View Post
On that note though, if spells and pagan ethics is supposed to be free will...
You said it right there. Not just my free will, everyone else's as well. And a love spell is specifically designed to constrain free will.

Or, as Jet said, I don't want someone to love me because I somehow made them do it.

Or even, in terms of the Wiccan Rede "An' it harm none, do what you will!", a love spell I cast is harming at least two people, possibly four and maybe more. I'm harming myself by reducing my self-esteem, the intended target by constraining their free will, and possibly the two couples or groups that we were perhaps meant to form.
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Old 02-05-12   #35
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

Okay, I took a several-day break, because I wanted to respond to this more patiently.

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Originally Posted by TheThing View Post
While you didn't quote me, as in, using the quote function, you did quote a phrase that I had used in my post, so I presume that this is directed at me.
Actually, the entire point of using your phrase like that, was to NOT point directly at you, because I'd obviously made you uncomfortable, and I didn't wish to single you out. Clearly that didn't work.

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I did however take issue with you seeming to state how much sex was proper or healthy for another individual to have in their relationship.
Show me where I made a judgement call on other people's sex lives? I said that I didn't "get" the common idea that "sex = love" and "no sex = no love". I never told anyone they shouldn't ever have sex, nor did I say that people in committed relationships weren't in love if they had lots of sex. Heck, I never even specified how much sex I had in my relationship! I just said sex wasn't the source of love for me, and that I didn't understand those who felt differently. No judgment call whatsosever. Just me saying I didn't "get" it.

Quote:
You are the one who brought the 'frequency of sex in relationships' topic into this thread.
I know, how weird is that? Bringing up a personal confusion on an aspect of relationships that's commonly promoted in the US and similar cultures as being part-and-parcel of "love"? In a thread about relationships?

I probably wouldn't even have said anything at all, except that I was clarifying that if someone was looking for a spell to get laid quick (as opposed to a spell to find a long-term love relationship), my advice might not be the most effective. I wouldn't write advice about "hook-ups" or "how to score a relationship that leads to sex so constant that you have to buy condoms by the pallet!" because I wouldn't know the most effective way to arrange those things.

Note that, even my last joke there about "condoms by the pallet," isn't a judgment call - it's lightheartedness. If someone's buying condoms by the pallet, they've obviously got an energy and stamina level so high that I'd like to know what THEY'RE eating! (They've obviously got the exercise part down...)

Quote:
I think you should reread my post.
That's worth quoting. Please re-read my posts. I never made a judgment call on anyone. I expressed a differing opinion.

I never told anyone how much (or little) sex they should be having, nor in what context. I wouldn't do that, because it's none of my business!

Sex is an element of most romantic relationships (whether frequent or infrequent), and I wouldn't dream to tell people what amount of sex was right for them. I only said what amount of sex was right for me, and why that might influence my "advice" for finding a partner (though, obviously, I didn't tell anyone what amount of sex they should have with a partner once they found them).

Again... I am sorry if my lack of sexytimes upsets people, or makes them think I have judged them. If they read carefully, they will see that I have not said anything negative or judgmental about them and their libido.

Bringing this to a close, TheThing, you and I expressed the same idea of finding a love interest - doing things one enjoys, getting to know people, and seeing if love grows.

Love happens when it wants to, like a firefly flitting by in the middle of the night. Trying sooo hard to see it, looking everywhere, might make you miss seeing that little firefly. But... he'll come back. Eventually. Yeah?

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Last edited by Myliobatis; 02-05-12 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 02-05-12   #36
HRH
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by PrincessKLS View Post
On that note though, if spells and pagan ethics is supposed to be free will and gray magick (neither black or white), why so many taboos when it comes to it and why direct love spells being the most controversial?
Love, in order to exist, cannot be forced. It goes against the nature of love to bind someone to you in an unnatural way.

Think this through: a person, who we will call A, feels unloved and forces someone, who we will call B, to act as though they are in love with A. B doesn't really love A, but doesn't know it, because their mind and free will have been removed. A knows it. It eats A up inside, and causes them to long for love even more. It makes A miserable to be around B, knowing that B is only a shell of a human being, not even in control of their own mind. A eventually finds someone who truly loves them. A leaves B for C. B is completely destroyed, broken beyond repair, longing for what they think is true love. A lives with what they've done to B. If C ever finds out, C ceases to love A, thinking it may be another spell.

The scenario can play out in many ways, but it NEVER ends in a positive way for anyone. Love simply cannot be forced. If you try, you do not get love, but a cruel parody of it. A person's identity is stolen with a love spell. If B's primary focus in life is art, for instance, and A casts a spell to change that focus, B no longer has the thing that shapes their personality the most. Now their personality is shaped by the slavery they've been chained into.

Make no mistake. A so-called love spell creates nothing but a slave, no free will, no choices. It changes who that person is at their core, making them no longer who we thought we wanted. Who we are is defined by what we care about. If I cast a love spell, the object of that spell is no longer an artist, a scientist, a biker, a musician. He becomes HRH's boyfriend, instead of those things. I redefined his personality, his interests, and his identity.

How can that NOT be wrong? Even the darkest people I know wouldn't cast a love spell. They aren't hindered by morals, but by common sense. Casting a love spell can't get the person you desire to love you. It can only change the person you desire into someone else who has been enslaved into pretending they love you.
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Old 02-06-12   #37
TheThing
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Actually, the entire point of using your phrase like that, was to NOT point directly at you, because I'd obviously made you uncomfortable, and I didn't wish to single you out. Clearly that didn't work.
I didn't feel uncomfortable Mylio, I simply took issue with what you seem to have been saying.

Quote:
I never told anyone how much (or little) sex they should be having, nor in what context. I wouldn't do that, because it's none of my business!
Fair enough, I misunderstood. I'm sorry.
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We both have truths - are mine the same as yours?" - Pontius Pilate (from JC Superstar)

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Old 02-06-12   #38
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Default Re: Thughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

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Originally Posted by HRH View Post
How can that NOT be wrong? Even the darkest people I know wouldn't cast a love spell. They aren't hindered by morals, but by common sense. Casting a love spell can't get the person you desire to love you. It can only change the person you desire into someone else who has been enslaved into pretending they love you.
This, this, a million times this! Bolded for emphasis.

I don't see why that is so difficult to understand. Not only is it immoral to force someone to love you, but it is pretty damn stupid too. It's just going to make a mess of things in the long run.
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Old 02-09-12   #39
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

Okay I get the idea of the manipulation aspect on the part of the practioner, but why as a community do we teach and push this idea?
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Old 02-09-12   #40
HRH
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Default Re: Thoughts on why you shouldn't cast a love spell...

Why wouldn't we? I don't know how to be any more plain. Love spells don't work. You cannot force love. What exactly are you having difficulty understanding? Why would we, as a community, not try to prevent our young people from making avoidable mistakes? Why would we not share what we have learned, ethically and logically? It's not pushing an idea, so much as explaining a reality.
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