Go Back   EarthSong Forums > Magical Systems and Practises > Ritual Magic > Avalonian Magic

Avalonian Magic Grail Mysteries, Arthurian studies, all magic and study related to Avalon and the Matter of Britain

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-12-12   #21
The Black Elf
 
The Black Elf's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Strathclyde,Scotland
Posts: 3,344

Reputation: 1359
Default Re: Brosceliande

Have a staggering wealth of answers.......my source being Atlantis & a beautifully constructed labrynthos of pure gnosis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who/what is Chretian & what is the rosy cross link.

Also my interest is peaked at (your label) medi-evil Germanic,would like a look at this,even just as a comparison to mine own Mither Tongue Inglis.

The modern English Alphabet having been developed in Germany in the 12c,arriving in Scotland early 14c as exhibited by Scots Poets who put Scots royal language to rhyme.

Unlike England whose Royal Language had just changed from Latin to French
__________________
"Only one Force, Love, links and gives life to infinite worlds."-Giordano Bruno
Che-khii-ii-inah (Katia - A Shekinah Mantra)

Paradox is your greatest friend in VOID!(echo,echo,echo,echo)TeamPull of mirrors)

When things No Longer seem contrar',discoveringis of t'other ar'!John Barbour(14thc)

With a strong will,patience & hard work,anything can be acheived - Liudmila(Babulja)R.I.P.(10/2/11)Temple of The Star.

That which has never been lost cannot be hidden
The Black Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-12   #22
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Re: Brosceliande

I'm beginning to think that the logistics of the outdoor workings are jinxed. After the pub turned into a supermarket, we'd just concluded negotiations with the Sports Centre clubhouse when that, too, closed - ostensibly temporarily for refurbishment but they've got legal problems with a sitting tenant upstairs, so who knows...?

Find a new route elsewhere? I'm not too happy with that, because this one is just so right. Change in the car-park near the beginning? In extremis, I guess, but it always feels wrong, and means my wife driving, and leaving the car exposed for what will be two hours for the last ritual? Redesign the ritual clothing and tweak the rituals? Looks like the best option.

Ah me...

EDIT: I'm sitting looking at even more rain. It appears that the possibility of even doing part of the route is out for the foreseeable future. The librarian stopped by to return my key that opens the forestry commission gates: they had the idea of driving up, parking on the drove road, and doing a small ritual whilst also checking for storm damage. Although the glade itself and the uphill slope part are free-draining and thus pleasant underfoot, the south end of the drove proved impassable in their Focus - they had to get in the other end of the drove and use a fire-break to reach the glade, a round trip of some eleven miles. On foot, I'm just not up to that. So, plenty of time to think.

blessings
ffetcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffetcher View Post
Quick update - it's now getting to the stage of being warm enough to work out of doors in the dark, so we might start this sequence when we work out a small logistical problem. The pub that let us use their function room to change and stash gear has fallen victim to the recession, and somehow I don't think Tesco is going to be too happy to let us use the cold store.

There are others in the same boat, in fact - all the people who've been commenting on the Sullivan stuff have used the place at one time or another, and I'd guess a couple of other groups too, since the Landlord was quite sympathetic and remarkably knowledgeable when I approached him, so either quite a lot of rework will be needed or I'm going to have to approach the clubhouse nearby with what may be the strangest request they've ever had. I may have to resort to going to the local 'fluffy' moot.

(Of course, if anyone else has had the same idea, the response may be 'oh no, not you as well')

But the indoor ritual works, so when I get it sorted out, I'm fairly confident of the remainder.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)

Last edited by ffetcher; 06-11-12 at 05:44 AM.
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-12   #23
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Re: Brosceliande

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Elf View Post
Who/what is Chretian & what is the rosy cross link.
Sorry, TBE, missed this one. Chretien de Troyes formalised the early French material that would eventually become the Matter of Britain. His setting is the Foret de Brosceliande, and Paimpont (Brittany) is a pretty good candidate: the locals certainly milk the link for all it's worth. Arthur appears only very peripherally - the central characters are Merlin, Perceval and Gawain.

There's a good translation of the Elucidation here.

a 'prologue' to Perceval, which of course is the prototype for Parzifal, hence the German links - the German was translated from the original French. The intro to the translation probably explains what's going on better than I can.

EDIT: I've just realised what you meant by 'rose cross connection'. As far as I'm aware there is none. It's just that Sullivan, a member of the Folklore Society (of England), drew heavily on folk motifs when constructing his dramas/pathworkings/rituals, and a couple of them are fairly similar to stuff from versions of Gyngalyn, so that merging the rituals with the Brosceliande background is fairly simple. I don't think it was a conscious decision on his part to use these items, which I can trace back to articles in the journal Folklore: As the name implies, the ROCF was more interested in Pythagoras than Arthur.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)

Last edited by ffetcher; 06-11-12 at 05:50 AM.
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-12   #24
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Two steps forward, one step back...

Just a quick update, chiefly about pubs and weather round here.

Just as the weather 'started to get better', although that was a relative term, the second of the pubs/clubhouses we, amongst others, had been using as a base camp for outdoor workings, including our Gyngalyn/Brosceliande. A few months ago we were confident that it would re-open, the legal-eagles have got involved with terms of the lease and in particular a sitting tenant - classic single mother, two children, no alternative accommodation available other than B&B, callous council etc etc, but the new lessees won't sign with her in place.

So, over the summer, we decided that the long 'quest' is a non-starter for out of doors at present, so I'll re-draft it as a series of guided meditations, which on balance are probably what Sullivan intended for his material, but probably not what the Christchurch/Southampton contingent actually did with it.

The single stand-alone ritual, we decided, could be adapted for use outdoors, which we did. On return from the Basque region, we set to to plan it. Last weekend was going to be it. Natch, on Saturday, it siled down with rain. My only foray out of the house was to get vegetables: I returned wet and miserable but with enough food for the weekend and my wife's lunch for today. Yesterday it stopped raining so we ventured out.

I'd picked the Fae Queen's Glade specifically because it's well drained, but the uphill ascent to the glade was two inches deep in water in places, so we retreated, walked round the other way, poured a libation onto some of the trees and came home.

I'm going to keep an eye on the water levels and the forecast for next weekend, but from here it doesn't look hopeful, so for now we think the Lady and Lord are giving us a sign. In the absence of a functional clubhouse as a base, we'll work on indoor versions of the stand-alone working.

Oh, and I'm writing a song.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-13   #25
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Gyngalyn's song

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffetcher View Post
Oh, and I'm writing a song.
Well, it's taken almost five months, mostly because I was trying until quite recently to force it into a puzzle-song format which didn't work - it either needed ten verses, making it a bit of a dirge, or I had to lose a lot of the symbolism. So I went back to the start, wrote it as five verses in blank verse, and the ten-nine rhythm dropped out nicely, giving a hook for 'stops' against the music.

But with blank verse you need to intone it against some kind of unrelated chord progression. So I decided to make it rhyme - I think it's Pratchett who says 'spells only have to rhyme so witches can remember them, and there's some truth in that. Most of it worked out nicely, but I resorted to a thesaurus and a rhyming dictionary for verse four, and then threw the results away: it had given me the push I needed, a bit like 'flash fiction' prompts. The faux-antiquity (or faux-Gardner) is simply because at the moment I can't get the transformations in any other way: I need it for tonight, nothing like brinkmanship, eh? The rough edges will go after a few performances and I'll post the revision in a few weeks or months.

But here's what I intend to perform tonight - several of the other performers and the audience will be pagans, so it'll be interesting to see who spots what. Any comments are. of course, welcome, positive or not.
Camelot in winter bleak and tragic
Hard ice means thin pickings at a feast
Now the fae seek aid to lift the magic
Gyngalyn would go, but is the least
Hard the laughter courtly knights all savour
Gyngalyn is shamed at Arthur's side
Then at last Elen
é grants the favour
Time to leave, fae messenger his guide

Side by side on horseback now descending
One by one the steps that lead to spring.
Sparse the shoots in mud, a bird-call ending
Then a stag, white in a blighted ring
Gyngalyn sees antlers, sunlight broken
Sees a chalice then, where last it stood
As it turns, he takes the sacred token
Then they follow deeper through the wood

Summer fruits and blossoms deck this passage
To a clearing matted thick with gorse
Now a hag appears with snake-like visage
He kisses her, lifting the old curse
Beauty, naked, shivering, unmasking
He gives her his cloak with all good speed
In return she grants him, all unasking
Wisdom, answers he will later need.

Three pass under golden autumn apples
Through ripe wheat to castle moat they quest
Guarded by a holy man with riddles
Gyngalyn lifts curses with his jest
Not for him eternal choirs and banquet
Just one magic asks he of the Queen
Gyngalyn drinks deeply from the goblet
Turns, salutes, and rides away unseen.

Leading back to winter is a progress
Soft the snow with birdsong rising up
At the feast the bards sing of the prowess
Of a knight who carries now a cup
Gyngalyn ignores the lady's station
They embrace and sup the magic trove
Mortal life is fair trade for the nation
If in life you taste the draught of love

Added: Sunday morning.

Went down okay last night, so even allowing for 'home team advantage' (and indeed the fact that England beat France, which always puts people in a good mood) it's presumably not total rubbish. A couple of people actually did notice the transformation bits and someone asked 'is that a ritual, perhaps?'

'Haven't heard that one before' someone said. Well, no, I only finished it about four hours ago. 'Weren't you working on a blank verse version?' asked Gary, my story-telling mate. So we headed off and swapped files on our tablets, not a very bard-like thing to do, and he did that version later, reading from his tablet and accompanying it with a basic chord progression. I'm a bit envious that he can pull that kind of thing off when I can't, but I actually got to hear it third-party, which makes up for it. The lady who runs the session at the Guide Dog has suggested that we do the two back-to-back next week. They're different enough that we may take her up on it.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)

Last edited by ffetcher; 03-10-13 at 11:39 AM. Reason: summary of last night added
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-13   #26
Fabienne S. Morgana
Thread Necromancer
 
Fabienne S. Morgana's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,900

Reputation: 292
Default Re: Brosceliande

Did you perform it this week, back to back, with Gary?

I think it reads beautifully. We need footage of you performing, ffetcher!
__________________
I dare to dwell in beauty, harmony and delight, I dare to see with clear eyes and an open heart.

FPSM - inspired by Donald L. Engstrom-Reece

Business page on the ubiquitous Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/FabienneS.Morgana

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FabienneMorgana
Fabienne S. Morgana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-13   #27
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Re: Brosceliande

No, it didn't happen, but might next week.

Given this degree of organisation, you'll understand that it may be some time before we get an MP3, let alone footage.

Glad you like it, though.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13   #28
Fabienne S. Morgana
Thread Necromancer
 
Fabienne S. Morgana's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,900

Reputation: 292
Default Re: Brosceliande

Lol!

What was that word... Mañana? ;-)
__________________
I dare to dwell in beauty, harmony and delight, I dare to see with clear eyes and an open heart.

FPSM - inspired by Donald L. Engstrom-Reece

Business page on the ubiquitous Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/FabienneS.Morgana

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FabienneMorgana
Fabienne S. Morgana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-13   #29
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Re: Brosceliande

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabienne S. Morgana View Post
Lol!

What was that word... Mañana? ;-)
There's an old joke about two people composing a Spanish-Irish dictionary. Everything's going well until they reach 'mañana', at which point the Irishman confesses that he doesn't know any word implying that degree of urgency.

More seriously, I started this thread almost two years ago. Trying to force it simply hasn't worked, so I think we can probably wait until we get a recording that feels right. I'm picking up a second psalmodikon with non-standard fretting this lunchtime (so I can get the original back from Steve), and I realised last night that with a few changes the tune will fit, so I transcribed it onto a napkin in the restaurant, and this morning I've changed the stresses on a few words, so I can do it as a test-piece when I pick the instrument up.

As an aside (slightly connected, but anyway, it's my thread so I can hijack it if I want) the instrument maker is a fine-carpenter who fits out multi-million pound yachts, looking for something to keep him occupied and make a few bob when he retires, is finding the community he has to interact with fascinating. Half of us have the mobiles on 24/7 in a pocket - indeed I'm the old fogey because I don't 'do' email from my phone - and the other half you have to contact by leaving messages in pubs (my mail drop is by the lime juice behind the bar of the Malvern). I imagine Gyngalyn feeling the same confusion, between Camelot in the mortal world and the fae castle, which of course is where we started.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)

Last edited by ffetcher; 03-10-13 at 11:41 AM.
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-13   #30
ffetcher
 
ffetcher's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Coast UK
Posts: 2,789

Reputation: 265
Default Re: Brosceliande

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffetcher View Post
I'm picking up a second psalmodikon with non-standard fretting this lunchtime (so I can get the original back from Steve), and I realised last night that with a few changes the tune will fit, so I transcribed it onto a napkin in the restaurant, and this morning I've changed the stresses on a few words, so I can do it as a test-piece when I pick the instrument up.
Now this was interesting. I was on my way to a short gig, and did the new version of the tune, with the slightly modified words, in the pub beforehand. The maker was dead chuffed that I'd modified the tune to fit - I actually think it works better anyway. But coincidentally there were a few people listening to the words. Mostly they thought it was 'nice', but one woman button-holed me to ask about the strong female imagery. 'Is the white stag an image for fertility and luck in Courtly Love?' (It is locally, although how old the idea is is open to question). The answer is that I simply don't know. The stag (or other white animal) appears frequently as the object of a hunt or a quest, and actually killing it usually brings misfortune - so like the pear tree for infidelity it obviously meant something, but I don't know what.

Okay, why the question?

'Well, you've got the ensorcelled (yes, she really did say that) woman, presumably nobility and therefore probably a virgin. Increasing the party to three, passing through autumn. But they only had two horses before so, after Gyngalyn declining the offer of sex (that bit was deliberate) the only way the party can move off is if she catches and mounts the stag. Or maybe the stag just gives itself to her and allows her to ride it.'

I hadn't thought of that. Because I've read the original material, I envisaged the stag just dropping out of the story after it's led them to the clearing (actually a cliff in the original, so probably shamanic trance initiation). Until she said this, I hadn't thought about the logistics - I just said 'three'.

'So, you've a very powerful image there - female sexuality, naked under the cloak as well, controlling male sexuality, fertility and good fortune. A bit of Unicorn and a bit of vagina dentata. I really like that.'

I explained that I try to leave room for the listener's imagination, but I wasn't necessarily seeing it that way. I then called Gary. 'yes, he said, the transition from verse three to four, Gyngalyn doesn't give into temptation... I've been working on the sexuality'. Let me put you onto Debbie, who's just heard the rhymed version for the first time...

I feel a bit better about the song now, because to an extent it equalises the 'control' aspects. But it wasn't even subconscious.

blessings
ffetcher
__________________
mankind's greatest advances are launched on dreams
(dedication in Tess Gerritsen's "Gravity")
...the dreams that stuff is made of
(a tee-shirt for the top quark team at CERN: now the title of an anthology of papers on quantum physics edited by Stephen Hawking)
ffetcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Current time: 08:36 PM (GMT -4)


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2008 - 2019, EarthSong Forums. Most rights reserved.