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Old 10-04-13   #21
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

Oh, I think the discussion is really important. It gave me lots to think about. And, to be sure, I have plenty else to do.
I just found it interesting, a glimpse into where feminism is at in the Western World, amongst other things.
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Old 10-04-13   #22
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
Two words for Miley Cyrus (and an enormous understatement at that) : NO CLASS.

I thought Sinead's letter was very caring and gently expressed. For Cyrus to respond evoking the fact that Sinead suffered a mental health issue years ago is just the epitome of cheap.
Agreed. It demonstrates that in her case, the corporate-induced degeneracy and psychological breakdown, has already reached an advanced stage. At this point, if there was going to be any hope of recovery, she would need to be removed not only from any access to her contacts in the entertainment industry, but also from public performance. We are talking about a prolonged, isolated intervention; probably six months.
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Old 10-04-13   #23
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

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It is easy to say you mean something with love when you are an older person talking down to a junior, but in fact I found that letter self promoting and extremely condescending.
I have learned to accept chronological chauvanism as normal, to be honest. Virtually everyone does it. To a certain extent, I think people do it to try and psychologically compensate for the fear of death, (as in, because they know they're likely to die sooner than someone else, they want to think that they've got superior wisdom and understanding in exchange for that) but there are also times when frankly, being older means that you do know more, and are more mature/sensible/knowledgeable/calm/intelligent/rational etc.

I've spoken to any number of teens and twenty somethings on 4chan before, and I don't hesitate to call them naive, inexperienced, ignorant, self-absorbed little shits; because a lot of the time, that's exactly what they are.

I also, I will point out, don't actually do that because I'm trying to be vindictive. My point is always to try and get them to see, that whatever they're experiencing at the moment, which they think is the end of the world, is usually a problem that is inconsequential to the point of being totally meaningless, in the grand scheme of things. Usually it's a case of them talking about wanting to slit their throats because they don't have sexual/romantic partners.

My response to that is invariably, "Go and wipe off the amniotic fluid that you are still caked in, and then masturbate several times, to get the excess hormones out of your system. After that, you'll be feeling sane and rational, and then we can really talk. While you're at it, get off my lawn."





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It is only because it is a Disney Princess that anybody is making any fuss about it.
She was a Disney Princess. She won't still be, by the time the Machine gets through with her. That's exactly what Sinead was trying to warn her about.

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Sinead could have said exactly the same about Madonna who has spent the best part of her musical career exploiting her sexuality in different ways some of which she may regret, some not.
I view Madonna as being trashy as well, but Madonna is from a much earlier time. When she got started, she was largely able to be trashy on her own terms, which is a large part of what Amanda Palmer was talking about. I also get the feeling (although this is a guess) that Madonna's response to accusations of being hypersexual, would be to say that at least she is doing something, which is probably true.

I can judge a person negatively for being degenerate as much as I want, but the fact is, that if they are able to be degenerate in public, then that automatically means that they have a lot more courage (at least in social terms) than I do.

It is also worth saying, that the only reason why I know about this, is because of Feranaja linking it here. I would not, otherwise. I do not expose myself to contemporary popular music, for the most part, and very little from pop culture at all, aside from science fiction; and the reason why, is because I regard current human society, as being the most degenerate in our species' history, to the point where we have the potential of bringing about our own extinction, as I have written about before.

So I do not consider it safe to expose myself to it, for the most part. The fact that America is becoming more fascist literally by the minute now, only proves the point.
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Old 10-05-13   #24
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

Amanda Palmer's open letter to Sinead O'Connor ...

http://amandapalmer.net/blog/20131003/
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Old 10-05-13   #25
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

That was posted a page or two back, actually.
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Old 10-06-13   #26
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

This could be posted either here or in the porn thread.

There is an element in modern feminism (and I have seen the same sentiment surface here to a degree) which I personally find to be a huge backwards step not only in women's liberation but in terms of people liberation in general. That is 1) to regard sex as dirty, and 2) to regard anybody who is open about enjoying sex as if sex is the only aspect of themselves that should be measured or judged.

Miley's case sums it up rather nicely. While I am not a fan, I do acknowledge that she has a talent for singing and she can act a bit too. Perhaps, like most people, she has a host of other talents, interests and abilities that are less well known.
In principle, why should we care what her sexual tastes, practices and attitudes are? If she films herself having anal sex with an entire football team does that in any way affect her talent for singing or acting?
If she admitted having a passion for licking ice cream and filmed herself doing so; would we care? If she was unable to get to sleep at night without doing a crossword puzzle first, would we care? If one of her interests was mountain climbing and she alluded to that in her video, would we care?
No!
It is the mere fact that in a video she alludes to being interested and maybe active in sexual matters that we feel free to accuse her of being everything from stupid to cheap and slutty.

It is about time we got rid of our hypocritical, Victorian attitudes towards sex and sexuality and stopped judging other people's entire charterers based simply on our attitudes to their sexual behaviour.
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Old 10-06-13   #27
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

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Originally Posted by Cassie View Post
There is an element in modern feminism (and I have seen the same sentiment surface here to a degree) which I personally find to be a huge backwards step not only in women's liberation but in terms of people liberation in general. That is 1) to regard sex as dirty, and 2) to regard anybody who is open about enjoying sex as if sex is the only aspect of themselves that should be measured or judged.
Do you know about the "Sex Positive," movement, Cassie? They do not do what you're alleging here; completely the opposite, in fact.

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In principle, why should we care what her sexual tastes, practices and attitudes are? If she films herself having anal sex with an entire football team does that in any way affect her talent for singing or acting?
I'm only likely to have objections to anyone else's sexual behaviour, in two scenarios.

a} If it is something I do not like, and they insist on doing it in front of me, or where I am unavoidably going to be subjected to it.

b} If they create a social/minority advocacy movement based around it, become obsessed with their own victimhood, make large amounts of noise and disruption, and subvert society in various ways, to advance their own supposed interests.

To a large extent, the gay movement are guilty of b}, which is the sole reason why I often express irritation towards them.

In my opinion, Miley's self-expression here is gratuitous and ugly. That in itself is not a problem, if for no other reason, than simply because if Feranaja had not brought it to my attention, I would have no knowledge of it whatsoever.

As I have written numerous times before, I consider contemporary Western society to be morally degenerate, on a literally apocalyptic scale; and I minimise my interaction with it, on that basis. Displays like Miley's here, only serve to reinforce my opinion, and further convince me of the accuracy of it.

In other words, people are entirely at liberty to be as depraved, degraded, and otherwise undignified as they want. As long as you don't disturb me, knock yourselves out. Feel free to completely immerse yourselves in your own excrement; and enjoy the inevitable consequences of such.


Rorschach and I are kindred spirits.

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It is the mere fact that in a video she alludes to being interested and maybe active in sexual matters that we feel free to accuse her of being everything from stupid to cheap and slutty.
There is attractive, tasteful eroticism, and then there is commercialistic ugliness; like ripped yellow cellophane with gold glitter, that has been trodden on several dozen times.

Miley is the latter.

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It is about time we got rid of our hypocritical, Victorian attitudes towards sex and sexuality and stopped judging other people's entire charterers based simply on our attitudes to their sexual behaviour.
I do not consider it hypocritical to maintain standards; and before you scream at me for doing so, let me point out that I am not attempting to hold anyone else to said standards. Other people can do as they choose.
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Old 10-06-13   #28
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

Well, for the most part, petrus and I are in total agreement.
Cover yourself in filth, just don't do it where I have to watch.

I've always felt that "Victorian/ repressive" mores were silly and damaging. From the time I hit puberty I rebelled against it; sex is (obviously) a normal part of life and should be celebrated, not denied. But the pendulum can swing too far, and I agree this is a degenerate, tasteless, porn-CRAZED culture we are living in. And that's not erotic in my eyes not at all. I don't think sex is dirty(although a little taboo around it used to be kind of sexy in itself) but I don't want people's vulva's rammed in my face everywhere I look (as on the cover of that infamous NZ publication, whatever it was). I don't need screaming puerile displays of pornography from every stage and screen. If that's repressive and Victorian, so be it, A little class goes a long way, IMO, but I've always been a moderate,I value the sentiment behind the word "Lady" - and thank the gods,I always will.
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Old 10-06-13   #29
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

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I've always felt that "Victorian/ repressive" mores were silly and damaging.
One of very few subcultural labels with which I am willing to self-identify, is Steampunk; which is essentially a less formal name for neo-Victorianism, at least in some respects. To be sure, there were a lot of ugly sides to Victorian society, but it was not all bad, by any means.

As a consequence of this, however, while I do not believe that every woman should be jammed into a corset, I also do not believe that sex should be destructive, either to oneself or others. If Miley Cyrus is behaving in a manner which is self-destructive, and I or others make observations to that effect, then I do not believe that we should be labelled bigots or prudes as a result.

I am not denying Miley's right to behave in a manner which will, in all likelihood, bring her great dishonour; but neither also will I refrain from calling a spade a spade, in the name of potential altruism if nothing else. If political correctness has the effect of removing an individual's ability to speak entirely, then it is not something which I can advocate.
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Old 10-06-13   #30
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Default Re: Sinead O'Connors' letter to Miley Cyrus

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If political correctness has the effect of removing an individual's ability to speak entirely, then it is not something which I can advocate.
Amen to that!

It always interests me that when i was first studying psychology, in the 70s, coprophagia was considered a pathology, the people who indulged in it sought treatment, and it was a very small percentage of sexual aberration, along with sadism and bestiality.
Now of course, all of those are legitimate lifestyle choices. I was shocked senseless in 1999, when I was first on the Internet and browsing through yahoo looking for "dog groups". It wasn't even so much that I found several groups devoted to having sex with dogs, but that some had thousands of members! I was sick from it but you better not say that it's wrong, or goddammit you're a PRUDE.

In a world where people consider crushing animals to death a valid sexual fetish and where two girls one cup is seen as EROTIC - yeah, I think there's something going badly wrong, with an excessive swing to depravity. I really do.
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