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Old 04-04-17   #21
feranaja
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Default Re: Sandra Ingerman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
I think Laurie Cabot was the closest thing to traditional witchcraft I can recall from the time. Well that and the works of Paul Huson that where floating around such as Mastering Witchcraft. Laurie's was one extreme and Paul's the other regarding witchcraft. But Paul would be from much earlier time wise.
Yes, and the Robert Cochrane stuff has been around for a while but it wasn't mainstream, as is true of the Anderson's Faerie Craft.
http://sarahannelawless.com/2009/09/...ft-traditions/


Quote:
Heathenism wise I think Odinism and Asatru where the main ones I can recall. Yet Odinism was even more racist and blood bound than Asatru was. NO Germanic or Norse blood and don't even bother inquiring about membership, but especially had to be white.
Very sad to see, as there is so much depth and power to the Norse traditions.

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Shamanism or things shamanic was like the red-headed step-child in the room. You didn't speak of it much less acknowledge it at the time that I can recall, heck even things Native American I really don't recall hearing about. The closest thing to it was some forms of Druid craft, yet much of that was very closed off and had to be invited. Well except for things like the book 21 Lessons of Merlin. Which was being passed at the time as the revealed truths of the Druid craft. OBOD and such where there but we only heard about them never really encountered anyone who was part of them.
And that 21 Lessons book is...so bad!

What I was taught back in the 80s, was that we could learn about and honour the NA way but it was totally disrespectful to try and claim to be part of it... as European-ancestry and children of the "conquerors" it was the worst form of disrespect to think we can swan in and hang dreamcatchers around the house and pretend to be native, because we feel like it. Either you learned from a living teacher who deemed you worthy or you respected it as a living tradition with parallels to European shamanism and paganism but cannot be just co-opted without consequences.
And then 10 years later everybody had a dreamcatcher in their car and was talking about their great grandmother who was Cree( I have one of those, but it doesn't mean I can pretend to be Native!)


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I do recall more discussions though about Fetishism, totemism, animism and animatism and similar topics as academic and philosophical / theological points. Things such as mana in general or mana as related to being related to the Kings touch or killing. I think we also had more discussions about the role of the shaman within society that extended beyond simply being the healer which seems to be how many see them today.
I've been reading more Ingerman and it really is whitewashed and New Agey. Her introductory work is all unguided, which concerns me(in my own studies we did guided Inner Journeys for some time before going it alone) and it's really Vision work, not the same as truly entering the Otherworld..or is this not a distinction you would make?





Quote:
I wonder at times is it they want to be special or want to be important and therefor recognized. Anything to make them stand out and be different from the crowd.
Ego, ego, ego..and immaturity. I have little patience for it these days.
Maybe I never did, lol.




Quote:
I figure in the long run it doesn't matter what I call myself or what others call me. All that matters is what the Spirit world calls me and that I answer and recognize it when they do. Those in the physical world will make themselves known and get my attention when they want me and need me using what ever term or name they need or spirit / the divine or whatever force is moving them uses at the time. Sometimes even if it's nothing more defined than "Hey Mr.!"
I'll drink to that!
Those with ears will be able to hear....
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Old 04-04-17   #22
MonSno_LeeDra
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Default Re: Sandra Ingerman

Quote:
Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
Yes, and the Robert Cochrane stuff has been around for a while but it wasn't mainstream, as is true of the Anderson's Faerie Craft.
http://sarahannelawless.com/2009/09/...ft-traditions/
Tubal Cain was around but like you said not very well known, especially outside of England. Don't think I really ever heard of it in the US until much later. There was also a version of Scottish witchcraft I encountered when I was stationed in Scotland in 79 that had been around for a bit. For the life of me can't think of the name now but saw a couple of books on it.

Quote:
Very sad to see, as there is so much depth and power to the Norse traditions.
The Norse had a lot of the ethnic restrictions that a lot of the African Disapora practices did with regards to being black. It was unheard of a white person having anything to do with any of the Disapora practices when I first encountered them. Lots of resentment that the only books that came out in the late 80's and early 90's were written by white authors and many of the families called bs on the content. Haven't really been in contact with any practicing families in a number of years but I doubt it's greatly changed in that regard.

I see the same regarding the Nordic stuff. Lots of people saying they have a right to use it while others claim it as their heritage. Same old story I suppose of blood versus desire and want. Doesn't matter whether it's Native American Blood, African Blood, Northern European Blood or I suppose Southern European Blood if you look at what is going on in areas like Hellas (Greece) with regards to saying Greece for Greeks.

One group uses it to justify hatred, anger, all sorts of issues to allow them to mistreat or judge another group as being lesser than themselves. Yet another claims they have a right to the heritage and mysteries & lore of the group simply because they desire to use it for whatever reason. Others desire access to it not for the specific nature of the others mysteries and lore but because it gives them insight and understanding into their own mysteries and helps fill in missing points they no longer have in their own heritage. Others simply because for some reason, some aspect calls to them and touches some element within perhaps even some diluted speck of blood they don't even know they possess but the spirits do.


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And that 21 Lessons book is...so bad!
That was a bad book. What's interesting is there actually is a companion book to it. A book that is supposed to go even further in depth into those mysteries and reveal even more from what I understand.

Quote:
What I was taught back in the 80s, was that we could learn about and honour the NA way but it was totally disrespectful to try and claim to be part of it... as European-ancestry and children of the "conquerors" it was the worst form of disrespect to think we can swan in and hang dreamcatchers around the house and pretend to be native, because we feel like it. Either you learned from a living teacher who deemed you worthy or you respected it as a living tradition with parallels to European shamanism and paganism but cannot be just co-opted without consequences.
And then 10 years later everybody had a dreamcatcher in their car and was talking about their great grandmother who was Cree( I have one of those, but it doesn't mean I can pretend to be Native!)
It is ironic isn't it? I have been told all my life I have Native blood through my mother's line but it's always been it's there, be proud of it but nothing more. Have cousins that try their best to prove it to claim the benefits of having it such for college funds and such but we never did. If it is in fact there it's so far back it's not recorded and probably would not be recognized by any nation. Yet the stories persist none the less. Both sides though most prevalent on my mom's side.

Genealogy wise I can't prove it. But for eastern nations understand that's not unusual either as early on many claimed white or they got lumped under other headings. Then in certain areas great lengths were taken to destroy records if any possible blood impurities were present. Funny when you look back on it now I suppose as people try to prove those heritages to claim them.

But I agree first nothing then suddenly this Native American pantheon exploded into pagansim. Like suddenly every nation had one common system of divinities and structure like the Romans or Greeks and it usually centered around the Sioux (Lakota) or Cherokee (Tsagli). Dream Catchers showed up everywhere along with War Shields and Fetishes and every book written suddenly had a Medicine section. Vision Quests and Spirit Guides / Totem Animals were a mainstay in every practice and retreat. Every practitioner regardless of path suddenly had to have one.


Quote:
I've been reading more Ingerman and it really is whitewashed and New Agey. Her introductory work is all unguided, which concerns me(in my own studies we did guided Inner Journeys for some time before going it alone) and it's really Vision work, not the same as truly entering the Otherworld..or is this not a distinction you would make?
I was taught journey work is guided first on the inner world and landscape. That's where most people go on their guided journey work. One reason it's guided and frequently controlled, to get them used to it but also create a safe and controlled place for them. Sort of a space place they can retreat to. But in that capacity it's not really vision work for it's all internal landscape, they are discovering their own inner world and construction, in many ways where they will actually face their own shadow and fractured soul elements.

In that regard it's the otherworld but not the otherworld. It's the safe zone where the spirit's might talk to you but your still relatively safe. You haven't followed Alice down the hole in the tree where the rules change nor have you reached the point where you guides have to really aide you in leaving. Not to say things can't and won't really screw with your head though. The only way I can really describe it is there is a part of you that is like an anchor that holds you in place and you feel it.

Yet once you cross into the Spirit world than anchor feeling is gone. There is an anchor but it's different, it's not like the physical anchor but almost connected between you and your guide. Sorry it's hard to put into words for me.

Vision work though is different. Especially in the sense it depends upon which world your journeying into to vision into. Most people vision into the physical and it takes around 7 to 14 days in traditional terms and is like the old testament where they went into the desert to commune with God and nature. They only people with you was yourself and a person who would watch out for you maintain your camp, feed you, etc. That was not like a sweat lodge and purification journey which was different and might be something like 24 hours. Many today do something like 12 - 24 hours and call it a vision quest.

Deprivation visions are another type of vision questing but can be dangerous. But again not advisable unless you have a dedicated person with you to watch over and ensure your safety if its going to be a long one. A 24 - 48 hour one probably not dangerous unless you have an existing medical condition. But again depends upon the person.

But many of the new-age things seem to promote the sit for 10-15 minutes and you've done it type thinking. Especially the ones where you use a guided meditation or person who will guide you to something they are telling you what you will see and encounter.

People forget that those are nice but the speaker doesn't tell you your shadow is also listening and is helping to build those creations. Your sunny funny place also has the dark spot built right from creation by your shadow. So even in the strongest of your safest places your nightmare already exists and is waiting for you. You fuzzy totem or guide already has a dark side to it or your shadow guide / totem is already present and waiting for its turn but your (collective) guide didn't tell you that either.
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Old 04-05-17   #23
feranaja
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Default Re: Sandra Ingerman

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
Tubal Cain was around but like you said not very well known, especially outside of England. Don't think I really ever heard of it in the US until much later. There was also a version of Scottish witchcraft I encountered when I was stationed in Scotland in 79 that had been around for a bit. For the life of me can't think of the name now but saw a couple of books on it.
Maybe you are thinking of Pecti-Wita?
"Pecti Wita - also known as Pictish Witchcraft or Scottish Witchcraft - derives from the area that is now Scotland. This area was inhabited by the Picts who warred frequently with the Celts before being absorbed by them.

Although the terms Pecti Wita and Pictish Witchcraft were coined by Adain Breac (1897-1989), this Craft dates back further than recorded word.

Pictish or Scottish Witchcraft usually is practiced by individuals as Solitaries and mainly deals with Nature magic."

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/bluesoulfire/trad.html



Quote:
The Norse had a lot of the ethnic restrictions that a lot of the African Disapora practices did with regards to being black. It was unheard of a white person having anything to do with any of the Disapora practices when I first encountered them. Lots of resentment that the only books that came out in the late 80's and early 90's were written by white authors and many of the families called bs on the content. Haven't really been in contact with any practicing families in a number of years but I doubt it's greatly changed in that regard.

I see the same regarding the Nordic stuff. Lots of people saying they have a right to use it while others claim it as their heritage. Same old story I suppose of blood versus desire and want. Doesn't matter whether it's Native American Blood, African Blood, Northern European Blood or I suppose Southern European Blood if you look at what is going on in areas like Hellas (Greece) with regards to saying Greece for Greeks.

One group uses it to justify hatred, anger, all sorts of issues to allow them to mistreat or judge another group as being lesser than themselves. Yet another claims they have a right to the heritage and mysteries & lore of the group simply because they desire to use it for whatever reason. Others desire access to it not for the specific nature of the others mysteries and lore but because it gives them insight and understanding into their own mysteries and helps fill in missing points they no longer have in their own heritage. Others simply because for some reason, some aspect calls to them and touches some element within perhaps even some diluted speck of blood they don't even know they possess but the spirits do.
It's very sad for me to see so much pettiness and arguing amongst individuals. I still recall those early days when I felt like the Craft was "home" and I could finally be with others like me. That's a long time ago, but a dream I hold dear. These days the entire realm is fragmented a hundred times over and so conflicted. Makes me wonder if there's any hope for humans, if even people in a nature-based spirituality can't get along and respect our differences.






Quote:
That was a bad book. What's interesting is there actually is a companion book to it. A book that is supposed to go even further in depth into those mysteries and reveal even more from what I understand.
Something being bad never seems to stop the author from putting out more of same...


Quote:
It is ironic isn't it? I have been told all my life I have Native blood through my mother's line but it's always been it's there, be proud of it but nothing more. Have cousins that try their best to prove it to claim the benefits of having it such for college funds and such but we never did. If it is in fact there it's so far back it's not recorded and probably would not be recognized by any nation. Yet the stories persist none the less. Both sides though most prevalent on my mom's side.

Genealogy wise I can't prove it. But for eastern nations understand that's not unusual either as early on many claimed white or they got lumped under other headings. Then in certain areas great lengths were taken to destroy records if any possible blood impurities were present. Funny when you look back on it now I suppose as people try to prove those heritages to claim them.
It's nice, though, that you weren't made to feel ashamed of it. My maternal grandmother was the daughter of an Ojibwe woman and a Welsh immigrant(I believe that is where her magic, and mine, came from) but the fact that Nanny had a "squaw" mother was an object of shame and ridicule (yes my extreme right wing racist father used that word). It was thought to be something to hide and feel ashamed of. We have pictures that show a woman who clearly looks Native American, but it wasn't until my brother made an actual pilgrimage to the reservation up near Wabashine that we were able to verify it. Unlike the rest of my family, we were honoured to know we had those genes. And unlike so many around me in the fake spirituality movement, I do not believe this makes me special or in some way, entitled, more magical, or deeper than others.
Any magic and depth I might possess I have worked very hard for. I do believe I was born with it, but unless people do the work it means little, like having profound musical talent but never picking up an instrument? So what if you can track your ancestry back to Mozart?

Quote:
But I agree first nothing then suddenly this Native American pantheon exploded into paganism. Like suddenly every nation had one common system of divinities and structure like the Romans or Greeks and it usually centered around the Sioux (Lakota) or Cherokee (Tsagli). Dream Catchers showed up everywhere along with War Shields and Fetishes and every book written suddenly had a Medicine section. Vision Quests and Spirit Guides / Totem Animals were a mainstay in every practice and retreat. Every practitioner regardless of path suddenly had to have one.
Oh it just drives me insane, I had a "friend" for many years who was the living embodiment of that, it always irritated me but she clearly had a need to be seen as "wise" and this somehow revolved around the dreamcatcher, the drum and a lot of phony "silence" and mystery. hard to not feel irritation when I remember, in the end she backstabbed me repeatedly and I should have trusted my instincts, but instead I decided to be supportive and set an example of kindness, openness and generosity. (That's a huge lesson for me and another topic, but I think if you are going to use NA spirituality to try and appear cool, you're not an evolved person and that will eventually extend to how you treat others). She's one of the most UNevolved humans I've ever known, and she's still out there with her moccasins and smug smiles and implications she's an "elder". And there are many like her.




Quote:
I was taught journey work is guided first on the inner world and landscape. That's where most people go on their guided journey work. One reason it's guided and frequently controlled, to get them used to it but also create a safe and controlled place for them. Sort of a space place they can retreat to. But in that capacity it's not really vision work for it's all internal landscape, they are discovering their own inner world and construction, in many ways where they will actually face their own shadow and fractured soul elements.
Exactly. I was taught this as well.

Quote:
In that regard it's the otherworld but not the otherworld. It's the safe zone where the spirit's might talk to you but your still relatively safe. You haven't followed Alice down the hole in the tree where the rules change nor have you reached the point where you guides have to really aide you in leaving. Not to say things can't and won't really screw with your head though. The only way I can really describe it is there is a part of you that is like an anchor that holds you in place and you feel it.

Yet once you cross into the Spirit world than anchor feeling is gone. There is an anchor but it's different, it's not like the physical anchor but almost connected between you and your guide. Sorry it's hard to put into words for me.
I thought that was a pretty good description - for me, when I started doing guided work I recall thinking, oh this is really so tame, but I would sometimes lapse right into deeper states, , and pull some very strong stuff back with me. I made myself work through the guided visions because they were part of the curriculum and I figured, if I am going to trust this teacher I will do what she asks. But then when I started voyaging with only starting place recommended (which was well built up in the astral by now) it felt completely different...still an anchor, but much more risk and onus on me to know how to behave myself! When I just use the drum and no guidelines other than the usual, I go out instantly. It's always a profound experience that I take very seriously, and ponder the meaning for along time.


Quote:
Vision work though is different. Especially in the sense it depends upon which world your journeying into to vision into. Most people vision into the physical and it takes around 7 to 14 days in traditional terms and is like the old testament where they went into the desert to commune with God and nature. They only people with you was yourself and a person who would watch out for you maintain your camp, feed you, etc. That was not like a sweat lodge and purification journey which was different and might be something like 24 hours. Many today do something like 12 - 24 hours and call it a vision quest.

Deprivation visions are another type of vision questing but can be dangerous. But again not advisable unless you have a dedicated person with you to watch over and ensure your safety if its going to be a long one. A 24 - 48 hour one probably not dangerous unless you have an existing medical condition. But again depends upon the person.

But many of the new-age things seem to promote the sit for 10-15 minutes and you've done it type thinking. Especially the ones where you use a guided meditation or person who will guide you to something they are telling you what you will see and encounter.
Yep, really not the same thing at all, although I can't discount eh significance of what I've experienced in shorter trances, I generally prepare quite thoroughly, do the vision work in circle, and make sure I ask permission, honour the spirits etc, don't just take a short break from work and close my eyes for a bit (and then call it shamanic journeying...sigh)

Quote:
People forget that those are nice but the speaker doesn't tell you your shadow is also listening and is helping to build those creations. Your sunny funny place also has the dark spot built right from creation by your shadow. So even in the strongest of your safest places your nightmare already exists and is waiting for you. You fuzzy totem or guide already has a dark side to it or your shadow guide / totem is already present and waiting for its turn but your (collective) guide didn't tell you that either.
I will never understand why so many people fail to recognize this, but it's one clear way of distinguishing whether you are talking to a serious practitioner with humility and dedication or a wannabe. When I go to my sunny place, it's called "visualization". When i journey, I am well shielded and aware of the Shadow. Probably the only reason I've even survived. Shadow work has to be a core part of everyone's training, but these days it just gets left out. Doesn't sell as many books?
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Old 04-05-17   #24
MonSno_LeeDra
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Default Re: Sandra Ingerman

Quote:
Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
Maybe you are thinking of Pecti-Wita?
"Pecti Wita - also known as Pictish Witchcraft or Scottish Witchcraft - derives from the area that is now Scotland. This area was inhabited by the Picts who warred frequently with the Celts before being absorbed by them.

Although the terms Pecti Wita and Pictish Witchcraft were coined by Adain Breac (1897-1989), this Craft dates back further than recorded word.

Pictish or Scottish Witchcraft usually is practiced by individuals as Solitaries and mainly deals with Nature magic."

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/bluesoulfire/trad.html
That would be it, Pecti-Wita. Reminded me of the bon-fires on the high peaks and such. Very much a singular practitioner focused system and had a lot of shamanic like world walking aspects from what I recall. Can't say how true to the craft the people were that I spoke to back then. Never participated with them mostly talk and comparison of methods. There was a sense of trust but also mistrust being I was an American in Scotland. But heck even with other American's on base we were pretty much loners and didn't broadcast things or do things together.

Quote:
It's very sad for me to see so much pettiness and arguing amongst individuals. I still recall those early days when I felt like the Craft was "home" and I could finally be with others like me. That's a long time ago, but a dream I hold dear. These days the entire realm is fragmented a hundred times over and so conflicted. Makes me wonder if there's any hope for humans, if even people in a nature-based spirituality can't get along and respect our differences.
I think though people forget the witch-wars of the late 80's and early 90's. Just as the bulletin boards were getting big and the net was coming on-line you had quite a few witch-wars. Some of those got down right ugly and messy and erupted into peoples real lives.

That didn't even touch the fracture wars that occurred as the major groups fell apart and sort of war'd against each other. We still see the fall out of that when you consider the rift between initiated versus non-initiated or self-initiated practitioners. Granted the rifts between the various BTW's, Alexanderians, Gardernarians, etc as to who is the real Wiccan's etc isn't quite as bad anymore. In part I think because I believe many of them have gone back underground. But occasionally you'll still hear the words like Cowan pop up and the majority will have no idea what they are speaking of.

Personally I believe what ripped things apart is the process of accepting everyone and anyone could be anything they wanted to be. Dedication, training, commitment and time all sort of went out the window it seems to me. Immediate gratification became the norm and that resulted in the breakdown. The commitments, dedications and duration's is part of what tied us together even if we were on different paths. It all marked us and showed something deeper in us that united us. I suppose in some ways you could say we suffered together to get to where we were going. But that is no longer the tie that binds us.


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Something being bad never seems to stop the author from putting out more of same...
I think many times it seems to encourage them. We the buying public also seem to encourage them as well. How often do we accept some inferior product? Though within the pagan / occult community, especially the younger part of it to often there is a lack of knowledge and quick acceptance of anything I think.


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It's nice, though, that you weren't made to feel ashamed of it. My maternal grandmother was the daughter of an Ojibwe woman and a Welsh immigrant(I believe that is where her magic, and mine, came from) but the fact that Nanny had a "squaw" mother was an object of shame and ridicule (yes my extreme right wing racist father used that word). It was thought to be something to hide and feel ashamed of. We have pictures that show a woman who clearly looks Native American, but it wasn't until my brother made an actual pilgrimage to the reservation up near Wabashine that we were able to verify it. Unlike the rest of my family, we were honoured to know we had those genes. And unlike so many around me in the fake spirituality movement, I do not believe this makes me special or in some way, entitled, more magical, or deeper than others.
Any magic and depth I might possess I have worked very hard for. I do believe I was born with it, but unless people do the work it means little, like having profound musical talent but never picking up an instrument? So what if you can track your ancestry back to Mozart?
It's sort of funny I suppose. We were told to be proud of it but Dad would also kid mom about it. Shed get mad at him for something and he'd kid her about counting coup on him. That or he'd call her his little squaw when he wanted to get her fired up but we knew it was always to mess with her. But can't think of any time he ever used terms like half-breed or any thing.

Quote:
Oh it just drives me insane, I had a "friend" for many years who was the living embodiment of that, it always irritated me but she clearly had a need to be seen as "wise" and this somehow revolved around the dreamcatcher, the drum and a lot of phony "silence" and mystery. hard to not feel irritation when I remember, in the end she backstabbed me repeatedly and I should have trusted my instincts, but instead I decided to be supportive and set an example of kindness, openness and generosity. (That's a huge lesson for me and another topic, but I think if you are going to use NA spirituality to try and appear cool, you're not an evolved person and that will eventually extend to how you treat others). She's one of the most UNevolved humans I've ever known, and she's still out there with her moccasins and smug smiles and implications she's an "elder". And there are many like her.
Yeah there are a lot of plastic or white indians out there for sure. Sad part is they get a lot of face time and many people look to them for guidance it seems. There are also a lot of false NA systems out there as well that were created for Whites or others. I say others because some of it I am not sure who it was created for but it's not just whites and the member's of various nations I've spoken to or discussed it with say it's not written to humans. Never sure if that is a racial thing or actually something regarding how they view the spirit world.


Quote:
I thought that was a pretty good description - for me, when I started doing guided work I recall thinking, oh this is really so tame, but I would sometimes lapse right into deeper states, , and pull some very strong stuff back with me. I made myself work through the guided visions because they were part of the curriculum and I figured, if I am going to trust this teacher I will do what she asks. But then when I started voyaging with only starting place recommended (which was well built up in the astral by now) it felt completely different...still an anchor, but much more risk and onus on me to know how to behave myself! When I just use the drum and no guidelines other than the usual, I go out instantly. It's always a profound experience that I take very seriously, and ponder the meaning for along time.
I always have a hard time with the guided meditations. I guess because in the back of my mind I know it's the person's idea of a safe place not what I think of a safe place as. I suppose in that situation I hear the voice of my earlier teachers. They used to say if I let someone else build a place for me then they are there in my place along with whatever they brought in with them. Figure the eyes are the gateway to the soul but the voice is the carrier to it, we may not hear it but it carries it none the less. So when they've dialed into your safe place they have a direct line to it.

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Yep, really not the same thing at all, although I can't discount eh significance of what I've experienced in shorter trances, I generally prepare quite thoroughly, do the vision work in circle, and make sure I ask permission, honour the spirits etc, don't just take a short break from work and close my eyes for a bit (and then call it shamanic journeying...sigh)
Trance work to me is not journey work. So short trances can be productive and revealing. But it is not journey work. I think the difference is journey work is usually for revelation and guidance of some sort. Yet many times trance work is for clarity of seeing and observation. To sort of get outside of the problem or yourself. To look from afar as it were at the problem and see it from various angles.

Quote:
I will never understand why so many people fail to recognize this, but it's one clear way of distinguishing whether you are talking to a serious practitioner with humility and dedication or a wannabe. When I go to my sunny place, it's called "visualization". When i journey, I am well shielded and aware of the Shadow. Probably the only reason I've even survived. Shadow work has to be a core part of everyone's training, but these days it just gets left out. Doesn't sell as many books?
Shadow work really gets down played I think. Far to often when I hear people talk about it, it seems they are only referring to the dark night of the soul type thing. That point where their spirituality is in question and nothing more.

That or they seem to think it's the demon in the darkness, like some devil waiting to pounce. Yet never consider the demon is their own self, or worse their own survival shade that is willing to kill to keep them alive. I took me a long time to understand that shadow also deals with the concept of anima and animus and projecting it upon people as a reflection of ourselves and facing it.

As a collective I think the shamanic practitioner has to realize his / her pathway involves psychology, sociology, herbology, ecology, and a hundred other "ologies" that fall outside of plain magic. Yet all those also apply to the other pagan pathways if they are truthful but most practitioners are more worried about the sparkle stuff and never realize all the "ologies" that make it up that they ignore.
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Old 06-15-17   #25
travsha
 
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Join Date: May 2017
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Default Re: Sandra Ingerman

I personally think her work is fine, but dont really consider it shamanism. To me "core shamanism" is very different then traditional shamanism, and I think calling it shamanism is a little misleading.... People get really confused about what shamanism is and want to call everything shamanism these days....

To me if the work is effective you dont need to use the shaman title to build it up - if you make a new style of healing just give it a new name otherwise people get really confused.

I dont personally enjoy her work that much as I resonate with more traditional practices.... But I think for certain people this type of simplified work can be an okay starting place. I dont personally consider it shamanism though and I think the "core" movement has really brought a lot of confusion to what the term "shaman" really means.
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