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Old 05-11-13   #1
MonSno_LeeDra
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Default Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

While reading a book titled GREEK SANCTUARIES I was reading about the cult of Demeter and Persephone at Eleusis. One of the items contained in the article was the Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases. It shows a number of Greek gods / goddesses.

It reveals some interesting depictions of various gods / goddesses that may be of interest to others. Clear depictions of Persephone, Demeter and Hecate. An interesting depiction of what is identified as Artemis yet no association with her huntress persona but more of a Thracian depiction with her staff.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Id...familjebok.png
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Old 05-11-13   #2
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

That IS cool - Hecate seems to have two large staves with serpents around them? Very unique depictions for sure.
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Old 05-12-13   #3
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

I have seen a similar depiction of Hekate before - they advise reconstructed from a pediment carving at Eleusis, Greece, 480 B.C.E

The supplier states : "With her torches, Hecate led Persephone back from the underworld to reunite her in embrace with her mother, Demeter, and bring Spring back to the world.
A caring and personal guide, Hecate shows us the way to and from her Mysteries. She is a key-holder and light-bringer, protector and transitioner, gatekeeper and guide.
Images of Hecate often guarded the doorway to the inner sanctuary of the Mysteries. With her torches, she hurries through the night looking back to ensure we follow and do not loose our way at the crossroads.
The original Holy Trinity was the maiden-matron-crone holding triple sway over heaven, earth, and underworld.
Her torch of lunar fire, serpent of immortality and knife of midwifery imbued her with primal power, especially in Greek, Egyptian and Celtic cultures. Christian tradition diabolized her as queen of witches to obscure her importance to the agrarian societies of medieval Europe as a source of healing magic.

Amazon women worshipped Artemis, Cybele and Hecate as Maiden, Mother and Crone, and Thracian Bendis was closely allied to Cybele and Hecate. Diodorus says that the Amazons offered sacrifice to Cybele, Hecate and Artemis and served as votaries."


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Old 05-12-13   #4
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

Unfortunately there is no evidence of the Amazons or any one else ever worshiping a mother - maiden - crone trinity of goddesses. Even the story of Hecate - Persephone - Demeter is suspect considering Hecate is not in the earlier versions of the story. Then factor in that Hecate is actually behind Persephone and they are led out by Hermes further changes the context of the story. The person with the torches would be behind and hold the torches over their heads less she blind them all.

The story grows more suspect in that Hecate / Hekate is not a figure at all the cult sites dedicated to Persephone and Demeter. Relatively few of them containing all three yet the mysteries were found at nearly all the sites dedicated to Demeter and Persephone.

Cybele / Kybele probably predates Hecate and Artemis in Anatolia. Historically Artemis is associated as a replacement goddess for an earlier fertility goddess at Ephesus / Ephesos. Possibly replacing Cybele / Kybele but not proven. Hecate / Hekate is even more suspect as a replacement for an earlier goddess though her temple at Lagina (Caria) does not really take shape and form until the Roman period not the earlier Greek period. Some suggesting that Hecate / Hekate is another name of Artemis as her worship is very much in Caria at the time while Artemis' covers the more northerly aspects of Anatolia.

Bendis is conflated with both Artemis and Hecate in Thrace. Yet it is again an un-named earlier goddess that they are believed to hail from. Though Hecate / Hekate in her Thracian aspect is closer associated to the Thracian goddess Enodia than Bendis.

Even the torches are suspect in that Demeter is depicted with twin torches herself in coinage of parts of Anatolia. Bendis / Artemis / Diana depicted with twin or single torches in many areas though occasionally the torch is suggested to be a spear, especially in Thrace.

Even the description of lunar fire is a misnomer when you consider that torches were associated to chthonic gods / goddesses more so than the moon. Especially descents into the depths of the earth and the fire of rebirth and transmutation / transformation in the womb.

Unfortunately many if not most of those write ups are from neo-pagans not actual historical references.
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Old 05-12-13   #5
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

So do you think that this image would be more likely be Demeter?
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Old 05-12-13   #6
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabienne S. Morgana View Post
So do you think that this image would be more likely be Demeter?
I think the image is a depiction of Hecate but very romanticized in a Roman impression. Not like the Earlier Greek images that are similar but show the woman's garb and knot. The earlier images seem to show Hecate / Hekate using her torches like weapons, especially the Pergaman wall image. Can't think of any that show her in her three sphere influence form though most of those were supposed to be of a singular young woman. Not even sure any of those were found at Lagina or Statoniciea where the procession of the Key occurred.

The stance of the image also matches those from a number of later pottery pieces during the roman period. Though the tri-formus statuary of three women standing back to back against a pillar is a later Greek version that is perhaps reflective of the Herms where three masks were hung. (I have one of the pillar statuary ones)

I do have the statuary piece being discussed
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Old 05-12-13   #7
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

It was the image I was interested in, more than their description of it..

The triformus statuary - this one?

I have seen a lot of variations on this - this is a picture of a piece in The Dutch National Museum.

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Old 05-12-13   #8
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

That pretty much matches it. It's slightly different but there are a number of variants. Bad thing is I've seen a couple that look like Caryitids (sp) with the basket on the head so one has to look close.

Mine are all packed up for the move so I can't even post a picture of them.

The one i'd like to get my hands on is the Chaldean three headed where each head is that of an animal. Those to have been suggested as having been about a central pillar but also somewhat the the three figure of Hecate that is also Roman in origin that is frequently what is seen today.

There is another one I have that shows Cybele seated with lions at her feet and Hecate standing before her. That one I think shows part of the conflating when you consider some aspects of Hecate / Hekate associate her with the lion.

The coinage depictions are interesting as well. I have a couple of those i've collected over the years.
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Old 05-12-13   #9
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

Shown on eBay but here are a few I have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hecate-and-C...item27cf4a2e39

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAGAN-WICCAN...item3381e95cdb

Not a statuary item but a parchment that i'd like to get.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cartari-Mito...item2ec748dc9b

There are some other modern ones but as a general rule I despise those.
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Old 05-12-13   #10
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Default Re: Regina Vasorum or Queen of Vases

I have seen some modern ones... I don't tend to like them much, which is why I am interested in the older images...

The Hekate / Cybele drumming one is one I have had my eye on for a while!

I have wanted a triformus representation ever since I first saw one, but they all seem a little rough - but perhaps that is the way the original/s that they are modelled on are as well?

I would love to see pictures of what you have once you get settled.
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