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Old 02-18-19   #21
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

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Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
seeing him state publicly he couldn't take advice from anyone "involved in daily conflict" is not just hypocritical, it's a game changer. That means all the time he was phoning, PMing, ASKING FOR HELP - and I was dreaming up ways to help and doing daily prayers, tlaking with The Thing and asking my Guides - etc - he was not taking anything I offered seriously. At All. Just raping my time.

So, that does call for a different course of action, I believe.
Been there done that, had a friend who behaved a bit similary. She really wanted me to help her but did not take anything I offered seriously either. *sigh* Since then I stopped trying to help people that I notice right away that they will not commit to helping themselves with my support but only keep on wanting my time, attention and pity.

On negative thinking and spiritual bypassing...I think it's impossible to stop the negative downspiral just by focusing on the positive. Had to learn this myself the hard way. Grounding, centering and to keep moving towards a baseline is what helps. From there one can start to work with oneself from a place of true self, not just a fake positive one.


Edit: oh that came out wrong, giving a person some moral support is fine. It's just when it goes over to the person using you and asking for help and then dismissing it all the time when it goes too far.

Also, I always find that - taking care of the body, the mind will follow - rule almost always works. Too bad he did not take to any of your advice
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Old 02-18-19   #22
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

Thanks for weighing in Fethenwen - I know there is much for me to learn through this experience - anytime a major conflict occurs it's important not to hide behind "what a bad guy" the other person was....even if they WERE, the conflict can be an opportunity to grow.


Some questions I am asking right now....

1) why, when I felt disrespected and taken advantage of, did I keep putting up with his invasinesess, and keep trying to help?

2) In most cases of healing work, it's important to cultivate a detached attitude - not always possible, but it's important t o try. In this case I was heavily invested in not only a good outcome, but being part of that. I felt very betrayed when I discovered he was taking someone else's advice much more seriously - a person without my clinical training or magical toolkit. You can say I let "ego" in the way, but I don't pretend to be above human feelings, it was very hard to see. Why did I allow myself to become involved to the extent that I was vulnerable like that?


3) I value authenticity and openness to a very great degree, but I need at times to keep things to myself. When I saw what was going on, I felt a need to speak out.That brought the situation to a head - which is good, I don't want anything to do with a person like this, so better I know how much hostility he has towards me and move on - but in other situations, it might be better to just stay quiet and let the moment pass. People will find out that thinking good thoughts won't guarantee their success in life, I could have just waited. But something in me needed to be open. This trait is a double edged sword, and one I need to be more careful with. This isn't so much a question as an observation - I when high emotion is engaged I often speak too soon. Better than I was in past, but something to watch.

Honestly - Bartmanhomer asked a question that really shook me up - why indeed, was I friends with FI? Well, initially I wasn't, he was the drummer for my brothers punk band, I was about 22, making FI about 17 - and he and I were not really friends. After I joined the band as bass player, and time went on, we became friendlier. In all fairness, since Vertigo broke up in 1990, I have only SEEN FI maybe twice? once for a "band reunion" in 97 and once a bit later, when he was in town for a gig. Over the years, he has pursued music professionally while I went into herbal medicine and animal work. We really have completely different values - I have had to stifle a smirk on more than one occasion, when he's talking about "The Industry" for example and I'm sure he thinks I'm a female version of Radagast the Brown, complete with bird poop ( although it's usually down my back, not in my hair). We really have little in common anymore. So it's not a huge loss to say goodbye, on that front, but it is a real shock to my system to witness the rank stupidity married to ridiculous rage and anger, that characterized this last outburst.

Not that goodbye is sad, but that the way it has happened is, very much so.

Much to ponder on, for me - especially how invested I became in helping FI clear the negative magic that was no doubt some part of his struggles. But when I see how he behaves towards people who are friends,how much rage he is carrying and where his true values lie - I also know how much of his current struggle he has really brought upon himslef.
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Old 02-18-19   #23
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

You know something Fera, I think you put up with a lot from FI because he kept your brother alive in someway for you. In your last statement you said you met him through your brother and that is / was his anchor in your life. On some level as long as FI was active and alive you shared that common experience and familial connection. Your brother still lived in the band and he still played together with you. Subliminally you didn't want to sever that common link. I think Tim knew that and perhaps even played upon it.
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Old 02-18-19   #24
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

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You know something Fera, I think you put up with a lot from FI because he kept your brother alive in someway for you. In your last statement you said you met him through your brother and that is / was his anchor in your life. On some level as long as FI was active and alive you shared that common experience and familial connection. Your brother still lived in the band and he still played together with you. Subliminally you didn't want to sever that common link. I think Tim knew that and perhaps even played upon it.



This made me cry...why didn't I see that.

Of course...of course.

You have no idea how much that just helped me let go. <3
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Old 02-18-19   #25
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

Well, you did the right thing, Fera. He's a jerk in disguise. You're better off without him.
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Old 02-18-19   #26
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

Indeed I am.
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Old 02-18-19   #27
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

Fera, betrayals are rough. I know so much about holding on to someone, helping someone, and then having to find your feet again when they betray you, especially if you thought you could see it coming, thought they had changed or that you would know better.

It sounds like you finally have some weight off your shoulders, but it's going to take time to truly delve into the impacts of this on your life, and your changing perspective. But, unlike FI, you will find a way to make it work for you, a way to overcome, and that's because you have the strength of character to succeed no matter the depths life takes you to. In the meantime, I know you have the love, respect, and shoulder to lean on of every here (minus the banned names =P )
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Old 02-19-19   #28
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

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Fera, betrayals are rough. I know so much about holding on to someone, helping someone, and then having to find your feet again when they betray you, especially if you thought you could see it coming, thought they had changed or that you would know better.

It sounds like you finally have some weight off your shoulders, but it's going to take time to truly delve into the impacts of this on your life, and your changing perspective. But, unlike FI, you will find a way to make it work for you, a way to overcome, and that's because you have the strength of character to succeed no matter the depths life takes you to. In the meantime, I know you have the love, respect, and shoulder to lean on of every here (minus the banned names =P )



This was beautiful to read, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate the time everyone took, who came into this thread to support me. Honestly I didn't know how badly this was affecting me until I started opening up. It's well known I detest the ideas that underpin the "New age" and have many times encouraged pepole to actually think about them, do some deconstruction, and see if you can still support them. As a Woman of Magic this matters to me, but more than anything,as a citizen of the earth who is in constant sorrow for the cruelty of humans, this bothers me to my core. It's one thing to see real evil done by evil people - a totally different thing when I see it tacitly supported by people who would actually label themselves as "love and light". It's a big topic, I know, and I also know you can.not. make the devotees see the folly of these beliefs.


And really, all I said on his Timeline, once I saw what was happening, was 'be careful with this, it may seem salvific right now but you are vulnerable, so be careful". Words said in warning only. but the term "salvific" enraged him. And wow, so much hatred came roaring out at me. I knew, right away and then later when he attacked me on my Timeline, he was fully blaming me for his misfortunes, and now plans to love-and-light his way out of it all. Without self examination, without the tools I tried to give him - clarity, strategy, control.

Which were, after all, THE most powerful longterm way to heal all this, because A) I don't do the denial, rainbow-unicorn thing and B) nobody knows better than me about how to defeat, manage, or live with a shitpile of curses.

So, may he come to know the consequences of his actions.



I'm much better after this thread and ritual last night.
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Old 02-21-19   #29
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

Follow-up: yesterday a client asked me some questions about TCM formulas, I don't do TCM much, I'm trained and confident in Western herbalism primarily, but I did take a short course in TCVM last fall, and I bought a text. I went to the text to look up the formulas she is using and a pile of classnotes fell out- right on top was a page of journaling-type stuff about, guess what? The frustration, fatigue, worry and more I was experiencing BACK THEN with him.

...how I felt I had to help, because if any part of his situation IS related to ESF, I felt guilty(big mistake right there,huh? Hindsight is 20:20).

...how frustrating to offer THE most powerful nutritional help and herbal support and have it pooh-poohed or ignored completely...


....how I felt I had to do magic on his behalf because, despite living in downtown TO, he couldn't possibly get a stick of sage, or determine the four quarters, or sain with salt, for God's sake



and I read this (verbatim):
"it seems I forgave you for 2015 ad moved on without discussion of it, and am trying to help as I can, but you don't follow through on anything...in a quickie PM exchange while I was working, I phrase' something that enraged you and we were almost at another incident like 2015"

and

"I know why he is ill- paranoia, defensiveness, hypersensitive to self/indifferent to others, grudge holding, unattended anger...whatever curses were aimed at him 9 years ago are just fed and fed and fed by all this".

Yeah. Like I knew this day would come and went on doing what I could anyway.

Boy, what a flood of stuff to work on, huh?
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Old 02-21-19   #30
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Default Re: The Problem with Positivity: Spiritual By Passing

But it sounds like you were meant to find that right now as confirmation of everything that's been going on, yeah? He's in a prison of his own making and you kept giving him keys he never used because he doesn't see he's behind bars and any attempt to get him to recognise the cage met with resistance/hostility. You can't bail someone out of jail when that person has been holding themselves hostage for years.
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