Go Back   EarthSong Forums > Spiritual and Religious Pathways > Creative Spirituality

Creative Spirituality A forum to discuss emergent and eclectic spiritual practices, traditions and personal paths

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-15   #11
petrus4
Leaper

 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,497

Reputation: 499
Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

My own philosophy here, is that motive is pretty much everything.

Example:- I no longer watch the evening news, or read major news services online for the most part, although I still do occasionally. The reason why I do not, is because I have consistently observed that media organisations have a very strong bias towards bad news. I believe that it is in the interests of governments and corporations to keep people in a permanent state of fear and misery, because those emotions are disempowering, and make people much, much easier to control.

Given my amount of Binah/Saturn natally, I have been struggling with fear (although not always unsuccessfully) for most of my life; and at this point, fear as an emotion is not something I have a lot of use for, although that doesn't stop me from empathising with other people who have it, because I've been there.

One of the most important things that Angel in particular taught me, was the necessity to at times try to ignore my emotions, and simply work the problem. I think Yinepu has at times encouraged me to focus exclusively on what is in front of me, as well. A central Hermetic principle seems to be the idea that, if we want to be able to walk as far as possible, then each individual step should paradoxically be as small as possible, in order to conserve our energy.

I need to make some clarification here. I have recently been rediscovering the value and utility of my emotions, so I am not attempting to negate that. There are, however, situations where I can experience disproportionate levels of panic, and I need to mediate myself when that occurs. There are also times when being excessively left brained and rational becomes counterproductive, as well.

One Venusian herb I've derived a lot of benefit from smoking with marijuana recently, is rose. Rose seems to be an emotional regulator and harmoniser; I am discovering that if I smoke it and meditate for a bit, my emotions will become very level and calm. Once that happens, then if there is a sudden disturbance to said emotions while I am talking to other people, I can check in with myself to determine whether or not those emotions are my responsibility, or if (given that I have discovered that I am a genuine empath, which has both positive and negative consequences) I am actually feeling what the other person is. If it is the latter, then while that can be useful for helping the person I'm talking to, I also need to be very clear about who it belongs to, so that it does not cause me additional problems.

I also absolutely believe that my outer life is a reflection of the state of my internal subconscious, although that does not necessarily mean that I completely subscribe to the philosophy of Esther Hicks, either. Esther occasionally does make genuinely valuable contributions to the broader discussion, so I don't want to be too hard on her; but it still must be said that I have been studying channelled material for ten years now, and I can state categorically that there is no other spirit in the room when Esther speaks. "Abraham," does not exist, and Katherine confirmed that for me as well. There are some channels who are authentic, but Esther herself is not.

The "Law of Attraction," really is not a particularly useful descriptive term for it, to be brutally honest; and even to the extent that it once was, marketing and hype have removed the rest of its' utility. I much prefer talking about the Law of Correspondence, which is what the Kybalion and other texts mention as the proper, Hermetic term for it; and the other benefit of using that term is that it reminds you of the set numeral correspondence system, which can be much more pragmatically useful in making sure I get what I want, than merely thinking positively!

There's another problem with the LoA. Namely, the LoA only describes the top level effects of what we are really talking about, which is, of course, magick itself. It's hard not to love people like Bob Proctor, (another leader of the LoA demographic, who was also in The Secret) because he's a genuinely very positive, dynamic, altruistic individual. Yet unfortunately, while Bob is genuinely awesome, and teaches people the LoA, he isn't teaching them Pythagorean numerology, which is what you really need, if you want to get truly good at this sort of thing. He isn't teaching rhythm, he isn't teaching proportion, he isn't teaching the correspondences or the manner in which colour and emotion are systems of communication which are every bit as valid as rationality.

So that is the real problem, here. Magick is a system, and it isn't going to get you anywhere to exclusively lick the icing off the top of the cake, without eating any of the rest of it, let alone knowing how the actual substructure of the cake is made. If Bob Proctor (or others like him) was going to start teaching Gematria and the correspondences, then we might really get somewhere; but the LoA only teaches you how to construct a front facade, not an entire building.
petrus4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #12
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

Quote:
So that is the real problem, here. Magick is a system, and it isn't going to get you anywhere to exclusively lick the icing off the top of the cake, without eating any of the rest of it, let alone knowing how the actual substructure of the cake is made. If Bob Proctor (or others like him) was going to start teaching Gematria and the correspondences, then we might really get somewhere; but the LoA only teaches you how to construct a front facade, not an entire building.
Agreed, it's very superficial! but for me, that's only one part of it and honestly, if it were just that, I wouldn't be so "meddlesome" as I've recently been accused of (or, gasp, judgemental). If people only want surface magic, so be it, I'm not bothered, to be honest.

The issues that get to me, with regard to LoA and the whole commercial thing, are these.

1) Lack of compassion - deconstruct much of what is passed off as 'spiritual" or deep, and it's all about the idea that wherever you are in life, you put yourself there -hence - and honestly it doesn't take all that much effort to see this - the corollary is, people who are suffering DESERVE IT.

2) Self focus - the narcissism of the New Age is so obvious I feel redundant saying this, but yeah, it's all about the individual's drive for "abundance". I agree of course that establishing some kind of security, contentment etc in one's own life is an important foundation, we have to be whole and well before we can help anyone else (mostly, I don't thinks that's always, 100% true, but it's solid wisdom). But the NA stops there and all focus is on the Self. Which, like Point Number One, is the antithesis of an authentic spiritual path.

3) IT DOESN'T WORK, most of the time, unless you count how well it works to make marketeers like Oprah and Deepak etc even richer. For the average person who wants to believe that all their dreams can come true if only they think the right thoughts, it's a huge letdown to find that real life is not like that, nor does magic really work that way. By focusing SO HARD on their own needs and wants they become more narcissistic, less compassionate and out of touch with the Big Questions that characterize and identify every authentic path, exoteric and mystical. It's exactly like, when we see people coming to magic, Wicca etc just wanting spells to get rich or get laid, if we all said, great, that's all you need to do is make this spell and then focus focus focus. I remember how many of these types we saw back in my Shop days and how we all tried to persuade people to think of magic as much more than their own personal wants and desires. Some got it and many did not. But the NA just encourages this, and I don't know why people can't see through it.

There are of course, some kernels of wisdom embedded in all the claptrap. There's nothing wrong with positive thinking,and of course focused intention is a critical part of all magic. But neither of these things should form a philosophy that suggests we humans, in a practical sense are Omnipotent "Creators of Reality". We co-create, and we struggle with distractions and suffering and things that happen IN SPITE OF our own desires. But the fact that this stuff takes people away from real magic and spirit and sets them on a course that basically turns their brains to mush, sickens me.

I have, on occasion, raised some points to ponder here and there with regard to this. I do that to empower people with the almost-forgotten art of Thinking About Stuff. I do that in the same way I raise points with good people who are voting conservative, who have just bought into the rhetoric about hard work and balanced budgets and don't really see what the right wing stands for. It's called "Consciousness Raising" and it's something I won't stop doing - being socially engaged - because for me, the core of spirituality is loving-kindness, and the New Age has blinded people to what that means. It's not - at all - about crystals(although there IS a lot of damage done to Mother Earth via harvesting them) it's not about incense or herbs or whatever. I live my Path and on the surface, it looks very "New Agey" to many - the herbal apothecary, the Tarot cards, the robes - but I will always take the time to explain why what I practise is ancient, and not New Agey at all. It is based on a concept of interconnectedness and on a lifelong process of learning and practise. Because the greatest gift any of us can give to humanity, and thus the whole world, is to strive for attainment - of higher consciousness, of goodness. And you may THINK you're getting that from Abraham or whomever is being mass-marketed these days, but trust me, it's a bloody scam and a pile of manipulative bullshit.
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #13
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

I feel very strongly about this. I don't mean to offend anyone, but for me this Path is an ancient, sacred one and requires study, commitment, contemplation and work. I cannot abide the way it's been so incredibly dumbed down in the media, and worse, how many people now think they're on a Path because they read Eat Pray Love.
well, the Inner Way may never be for the mainstream. I might have to just accept that.
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #14
Brigidrose
Mermaid
 
Brigidrose's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,814

Reputation: 638
Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

I have taken offense at this sometimes. I think because the label and what a person believes about that label makes them less understanding. There are so many different degrees of beliefs in whatever system you believe in. I also think no one is correct. I also believe that there is a common thread running through most belief systems, the ones that are covered and pushed down with different interpretations.

I believe that we are more than this body of bone and blood. I believe that we are and carry the spark of the creator, what ever and all that that is. Energy is constantly moving. So are we. Thoughts are things. I also believe that we can attract whatever we want, it takes practice, but I believe all of us can and do. Either create what we want or what we do not want. This has always resonated with me 30 plus years now. I also embrace the old traditions, which have some of those common threads running through. How wonderful is that ! I will never bash another belief, no matter what I may think...unless they actually want my input.
__________________
~ One by one, we will step into the center of the circle. We will hear our names chanted, feel the cone rise around us. We will receive the gift, and remember: I am Goddess..
You are God, Goddess. All that lives, breathes, loves, sings in the unending harmony of being is divine.
SH~

~ The reason nothing can truly ever make sense is that it is all fluid. ~
~ To manifest abundance, follow your hearts desire ~


Brigidrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #15
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

It's very important to distinguish between "bashing" and opening up discussion.

I know you personally will not listen to any criticism of the New Age, BrigidRose,and that you take it very personally.But I have helped many people to see more deeply and broaden their understanding. If I piss someone off in the process, that may be more about them than about me. I am certainly not going to stop pointing out things that might not be in immediate evidence, because one person misunderstands my motives. Sorry, but you know me; I stand in my truth. Every time.
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #16
Brigidrose
Mermaid
 
Brigidrose's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,814

Reputation: 638
Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

Yes ..It is your truth, just like its my truth and that other persons truth. Its how we all interpret things. It may be similar but then a bit different.
__________________
~ One by one, we will step into the center of the circle. We will hear our names chanted, feel the cone rise around us. We will receive the gift, and remember: I am Goddess..
You are God, Goddess. All that lives, breathes, loves, sings in the unending harmony of being is divine.
SH~

~ The reason nothing can truly ever make sense is that it is all fluid. ~
~ To manifest abundance, follow your hearts desire ~


Brigidrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #17
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

FWIW, I also believe we can attract *some* of what we want.But we are not omnipotent and to think we completely create our own reality is not only arrogant, it's demonstrably false.
I also wonder how die-hard New Agers address things like addiction, depression, suicide, rape and cancer in children. Not enough practise, in attracting what they wanted? I've yet to hear a plausible or intellectually valid response to any of that.

What about the things that might come along with "getting what we want?" I wanted to live in the country and have animals, and I have that. There is also too much work and I feel isolated a lot of the time. how does the New Age address the reality, that what we want comes at a price, or that it may not always be what we need?
Looking a little more deeply...
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #18
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigidrose View Post
Yes ..It is your truth, just like its my truth and that other persons truth. Its how we all interpret things. It may be similar but then a bit different.
Well, I don't defend all truths as equally valid or the Ku Klux Klan would have the same value as the writings of Milarepa or Thomas Merton or Dion Fortune.

In my training, this was taught as Ground Zero for occultists: discretion and discrimination... how to tell the good stuff from the dross. And again, as a teacher, I will continue to teach. Continue to defend the Old Ways and the foundational teachings. Those who don't like to hear them are free not to listen.
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #19
feranaja
 
feranaja's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edge of the forest
Posts: 25,669

Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

Lastly - the thing to bear in mind is this. If its ok to put out memes and quotes and express one's beliefs, it surely is ok for others to post theirs, that differ? It doesn't need to be a conflict if one does not become defensive and reactionary. It can, and really should be a good and fruitful discussion.
__________________
"if you don't know how to think, you'll always be a one legged man in an ass kicking contest".

Shane Parrish
feranaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-15   #20
Brigidrose
Mermaid
 
Brigidrose's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,814

Reputation: 638
Default Re: ..and the other burning question of the day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by feranaja View Post
FWIW, I also believe we can attract *some* of what we want.But we are not omnipotent and to think we completely create our own reality is not only arrogant, it's demonstrably false.
I also wonder how die-hard New Agers address things like addiction, depression, suicide, rape and cancer in children. Not enough practise, in attracting what they wanted? I've yet to hear a plausible or intellectually valid response to any of that.

What about the things that might come along with "getting what we want?" I wanted to live in the country and have animals, and I have that. There is also too much work and I feel isolated a lot of the time. how does the New Age address the reality, that what we want comes at a price, or that it may not always be what we need?
Looking a little more deeply...
New Age is just a label, you cannot keep lumping what you think is all new age into it. Rituals are also asking for things and getting what you want, with all that come with that. Yes you have all your precious animals and now cannot travel because you feel no one will take care of them like you do. We have our practice and feel that no one will take care of our patients like we do. But if you want something badly enough you will make the necessary changes to get it, and usually the other side of the coin as well.

As far as rape, suicide, molestation's, I do not have a response most will accept. To me from what I have learned is varying degrees of beliefs and understanding, lack of guidance, lack of maybe knowing the light within or power within and soul experiences.
What if all of this is about the soul experience? Form the moment we are born male or female we are all experiencing something different, throw race, creed, religious beliefs and then all the interactions from man to man woman to woman because it may affect anyone of us, just like this convo.
__________________
~ One by one, we will step into the center of the circle. We will hear our names chanted, feel the cone rise around us. We will receive the gift, and remember: I am Goddess..
You are God, Goddess. All that lives, breathes, loves, sings in the unending harmony of being is divine.
SH~

~ The reason nothing can truly ever make sense is that it is all fluid. ~
~ To manifest abundance, follow your hearts desire ~


Brigidrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Current time: 10:46 PM (GMT -4)


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008 - 2019, EarthSong Forums. Most rights reserved.